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Its awful quiet!

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Simon

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Its awful quiet!
« on: August 08, 2007, 01:55:39 pm »
Well, were past half way in the season at Summit and you guy's are awful quiet....don't we have something to talk about?
I saw a thread on the WERA board with some guy's banging on the crew at Mid-Ohio for the AMA races, because they ran past a down rider to get to his bike. Some interesting perspectives on what various people think Cornerworkers should and shouldn't do.
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Kuala76

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Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007, 02:35:25 pm »
~ This will come as a "shock", I'm going to be the one to break the "quiet".  I read the thread (parts of it) with regard to the MidOhio race.  I disagree with a lot that was said in the thread.  First of all, several people have put the priority of the DOWN BIKE ABOVE the rider?  And no one corrected them.. that's not what we're taught is it? 

~At a seminar, need to run, will finnish thoughts later  :thumb:

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Kumi
MARRC Corner Worker of the Year 2008
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Kuala76

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Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2007, 03:14:48 pm »
Okay - you didn't think that was ALL I had to say about it did you???  ::)  I guess there are several things to take into consideration.  First of all, there are "standards" and there is "protocol" when it comes to corner working but it is NOT by any means an "exact science".  Every incident that occurs on the track will be different but every incident requires assessment and action of some type.  Since we've established that this is not an exact science, there is ALWAYS grey areas when it comes to right or wrong.  We all know how intense it can be during an incident and we can ALL probably look back and think of "better" ways that the incident "could have been" handled.  There is almost always more than one way to resolve/handle a situation and who is to say what is right and wrong?  In my opinion, a corner worker who makes what some perceive as a "mistake" should never be publicly condoned or flamed for that action as I am sure they probably beat themselves up about it enough as it is.  All that being said, we all have to come to the sad realization that there ARE corner workers out there who leave a bit to be desired and may be lacking in what some of us see as "common sense" and/or "dedication and commitment". 

~For the record, I watched that race and that portion of the race numerous times.  In my opinion the bike wasn't in a position that would cause imminent danger to the riders on track.  However, the rider was clearly in pain and appeared to be even a bit disoriented.  I wasn't so much upset that no one ran directly to the rider (we all determine the risks we are willing to take- to be honest I probably would have run to the rider, but technically that would have been a "bad decision" and I would have been in harms way for a short period of time) - I was upset that they RAN RIGHT BY HIM and DIDN'T EVEN attempt to communicate AT ALL with the rider - wave him away from the track, somehow show in SOME way that they knew he was down and hurt and not just out there fending for himself.

~So to rap it up...I think I would have at least GONE to the rider, I would not have "moved" him but at least been there long enough to assess the situation (not medically nescessarily), but figure out if the guy twisted his ankle and needed a little bit of a "crutch" to get away from the track, or if he was just "disoriented" and needed a little prompting to which way to go! So flame me for not being "safe", but that is what I think I would have done...again, corner working is not just working with your "feet to the fire" but actually working from WITHIN the fire.  Again, this assuming that my flagger was actually throwing a WAVING YELLOW - which then leads into the conversation of the USE of waving yellows and how if they are OVER USED, racers become immune- yet we do our jobs as corner workers and make choices based on those flag conditions and take it on faith that the racers will actually adhere to the flag conditions.  I have to say that there were times where I was A LOT more cautious getting to riders and bikes when I saw the racers consistantly over riding the yellow and red flags.  I think we have it great at Summit because we have some of the best training and the best core group.  I think we also have the RESPECT of "most" of those who race out there - the more I see out there in the world outside of Summit, the more I realize how good the racers really have it at Summit.

Very interested in what others have to say on this topic :)

~Okay - SIMON are you sorry you made the statement "It's Awful Quiet"???  :blahblah: :blahblah:
You are now there doing this  :banghead:

 :cheers: :cheers:
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Kumi
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Kuala76

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Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2007, 03:21:42 pm »
PS.  Simon would have come from the INFIELD, jumped the hot track, grabbed the bike and the rider and landed them all safely behind the fences...  :thumb:
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Kumi
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Simon

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Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2007, 03:52:13 pm »
No, I'm not sorry I let the Genie (Kumi) out of the bottle. :biggrin:

Its interesting the way people think though, there are some horrendous comments on what they think the cornerworkers should have done. Personally, I think it comes down to training, experience and your own personal motivation/risk tolerance, and that of the corner crew you are working with. I know we have the "priorities" drilled into us, but as Kumi says, every situation is different. The only cast iron rule I never break is putting my fellow workers in danger. The other priorities depend on the situation as it unfolds on the track.
Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2007, 03:57:39 pm by Simon »
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MARRC Cornerworker
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TheHiriser

Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2007, 04:19:01 pm »
I'll reply after I weed whack the yard and then actually sit down to watch the race.  Have it downloaded, just haven't had the time to watch.  I'm sure I'll have something to say.
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Simon

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Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2007, 04:25:15 pm »
Yeah, I haven't made any comment on what happened cuz I haven't seen it yet either....but the WERA boards burning up with other peoples opinions!
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MARRC Cornerworker
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Woofentino Pugrossi

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Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2007, 05:01:13 pm »
MAde my 2 cents there and as the norm, couple of the asshats there get bent out of shape. They want to armchair cornerwork, then they should get their sorry asses out there.
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Rob
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TheHiriser

Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2007, 05:36:58 pm »
I agree Woof, we've sort of had this discussion before with spectators yelling at cornerworkers from behind the fence to get an ambulance or throw the red flag or whatever.  Burns me up that they themselves have never been in the decision making seat themselves and have had to make that split second judgement on what to do in a bad situation.

Weed whacking is now done, got my two stroke fume fix, time to watch the first race, hopefully by then the second one will be done.
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Court Jester

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Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2007, 06:45:48 pm »
Everything is always crystal clear from the sidelines.
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "WOOOHOOO! What a freaken ride"

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TheHiriser

Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2007, 08:16:35 pm »
Got to watch both races finally so here is my quick .02.  :thumb:

CW one was running race direction with the flow of bikes barely looking over his shoulder back at oncoming traffic, not good.   :err: :wtf:

CW two as stated ran to CW one to help with the bike.  First of all if I can lift Nate Kerns' BMW 1200 after putting one foot in tranny fluid on my own and also push a GSXR 1000 through the gravel pit in T1 at Summit at a whopping 150lbs :lmao:, I'm sure judging by how big CW one looked to be the bike should have been no problem for him on his own.  Maybe putting it on stretch on the plasma made him look bigger than he actually was.  :rollseyes:

Now I know different orgs have different protocols but in MARRC the downed bike is the absolute last priority.  The one previous to that one.......downed rider.  From the angle I could see the downed rider was much closer to the track anyway and should have taken precedent over the bike even more so given the fact he was injured.  Not that medically we can do anything but as Kumi said providing a "crutch" might have helped his situation much more getting him away from the impact zone.

Given all that I'd only hope, once again as Kumi said, the CW's are mulling over their decisions and maybe playing out in their heads how they'd do it differently next time.

Just my humble opinions and my take on the situation given what I saw.  Doesn't mean the CW's weren't told by someone else to go get the bike and leave the rider or that the CW's there have a different policy.  I'm glad no one was seriously injured in the whole incident and wish Ben Thompson a speedy recovery.  :cheers: :thumb:
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TheHiriser

Re: Its awful quiet!
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2007, 08:18:26 pm »
Oh yeah, that was one of the weirdest high sides I've ever seen, looked like he was flat tracking it.  He almost could have surf boarded it in the way he landed on top of the bike.
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