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Author Topic: Tranny Woahs.  (Read 4743 times)

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Noidly1

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Tranny Woahs.
« on: August 05, 2007, 02:03:45 am »
Figured it was time for some PM work on my 400/600 Hybrid and add a few upgrades. Got some parts for it, Barnett clutch n springs, Factory shift kit, V&H pipe, pod filters, plugs, oil n filter, new shock, had the forks reworked, getting ready to put on that swinger i had, yada yada.

Any way, I read somewhere that it was a good idea to drop the pan and check and clean the screen. Since I had the stock pipe off, I thought, Sure, why not? So I drained the oil n dropped the pan. Everything looks fine. Typical debris, no sweat. Pulled the screen, saw a little bit of stuff, figured it was from clutch, rinsed it out, out comes 2 teeth! F^@KKK...

Now I am worried. I put it in high gear and bumped it, looking at all the teeth. I'm bumping and bumping, checking and checking. So far so good, I'm starting to think, hopfully they're from the starter gears. It's been makin noise, they are on the side, cool, I can fix that. Still bumping and -AW-F^@KKK, 2 teeth on far left forward gear , both teeth next to each other.

Great, now I'm out the rest of the season I guess.

Any one know how long it will take or know how much it'll cost to fix it or should I just go ahead and rebuild it? It runs fine. Haven't had to touch it in 15 years. No noise or smoke. Mostly street ridden n some track.

What are my options?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 02:15:55 am by Noidly1 »
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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 03:09:06 am »
If its 1 or2 poor launch .If it's 5 or top gear you may gear around it for some tracks and it may never completely fail.  A lower gear will surly fail .maybe you should plan a winter trans under cut service.About 500 plus gaskets, rings ,clutch,ristpins and clips.
About 800bucks if you do the service,maybe 10 ,15 hours with motor on bench.Did some of those 400motors have casette style trans?
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Noidly1

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 12:47:57 pm »
I heard something downshifting from 6th, thought it was the dogs poppin...

The weard part is, I never noticed anything the rest of the day.

The broken teeth are broke on a wedge. full tooth on one side, point on other. That may be the reason I was able to keep riding.
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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2007, 02:03:01 pm »
One of the millions of crashed 600 's may have a less expensive Donor motor ,but building lets you know what you really have.
And the pride of building your own motor is priceless
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Jeff

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 09:18:16 am »
Yep, a new motor may well be cheaper than a replacement transmission.

A tranny replacement IF you remove the motor...  You're probably looking at around $250-$350 for labor alone (maybe more, but certainly not less). If you wheel the bike in add another $250 to it.

Parts (new gears), new shift forks and anything else, you're probably around $200 assuming the input & output shafts are good (don't see why they wouldn't be).
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Ducmarc

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 08:36:28 pm »
email racer22 he's hording all that fizzer stuff. otherwise ebay theere was a whole motor on there about a month back
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Noidly1

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 09:24:03 pm »
I think I'm gonna fix the tranny for now and save up some dough for a rebuild this winter with an undercut. Speaking of undercutting, who does it, how much and how long turn-a-round time?

BTW, Thanks all...
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 09:28:02 pm by Noidly1 »
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Super Dave

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 09:55:34 pm »
I think R&D in Florida is recognized as one of the places that everyone sends transmissions to.

They will also tell you if the trans is good at all.
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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2007, 09:58:01 pm »
R&D trans in Florida they will magnaflux and replace bad parts sending you the slickest shifting trans .the last one we had done was 450$ .If you just  fix trans,be  sure to have it magnafluxed to check for other bad gears ,or they're next to go
with the clutch out check for notches along basket edges ,you can file away small ridges .Things will feel much better
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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2007, 09:59:45 pm »
YOU type faster than i do ,look at posting times
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Super Dave

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2007, 10:04:46 pm »
LOL!  I do type pretty fast.   :biggrin:
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Noidly1

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2007, 10:36:16 pm »
email racer22 he's hording all that fizzer stuff. otherwise ebay theere was a whole motor on there about a month back

mark;

I don't see racer22 on the member list.

I've been collecting parts too.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 10:52:02 pm by Noidly1 »
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Noidly1

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2007, 10:50:30 pm »
SD and Gus;

You got a # for R&D?

Super;

Whats wrong with Barnetts?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 10:58:00 pm by Noidly1 »
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Super Dave

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2007, 08:00:29 am »
I don't know it off the top of my head.  I'd google it, and you should be able to come up with it.
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Super Dave

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2007, 08:04:07 am »
Super;

Whats wrong with Barnetts?
Well, what's wrong with the OEM ones?

I've seen the Barnetts have big adjustment problems.  Seem to expand very differently.  Maybe someone else has a better answer.  But I've had to experience the problem on the one Harley I rode, a vintage CB750 race bike, and a current production race bike that I had.  Maybe it's different now, but I have too much good luck with the OEM stuff.

I have recently tried a clutch from DP Brakes, but it's a completely different material, so I'm kind of excited to see how that works.
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Super Dave

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2007, 10:58:47 pm »
mark;

I don't see racer22 on the member list.

I've been collecting parts too.

check this link for roadracer22.......

http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2434
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Noidly1

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2007, 11:10:36 pm »
Well, today I got to play with it.
Thought I'd be able to split the cases and pull out the gears, but NnnOOOoooo...
In Yamaha's infanite wisdom, they decided to put 2 bolts under the # 2 & 3 cylinders.
So I had to pull the head and jugs first. Guess it was a good thing though. Cam chain seems loose, bends to the side quite a bit.

Time for an overhaul I guess. There wasn't any noise, so should I mess with main and rod bearings? Rods seem to have nominal movement.
I do think now is a good time to change the rings since it is apart and do a valve job. Any suggestions on who to go to for head work?

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Noidly1

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2007, 11:11:56 pm »
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Noidly1

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2007, 04:42:57 pm »
Just to let all know, PSCook sent me a tranny and a flywheel I needed.
Today I had sent off the 2 trannies to Orient X so they can do their magic.

I took my head in to the shop for a valve job, after they got it apart, I brought it back home and ported it. With my race car engine building experience, I figured it would be easy. After I was done, I took it back to the shop for them to cut the seats and finish the rest.

Now, I understand fluid and air dynamics but, from what I was told, after the fact which I did, you are not supposed to knife edge the area between the valves. Why? Yes, aircraft wings have a rounded leading edge and a sharp trailing edge. But, I believe that since I am not tying to "fly" though the air, I am directing the air. How can this be bad? Please explain.
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GSXR RACER MIKE

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2007, 05:34:37 pm »
Now, I understand fluid and air dynamics but, from what I was told, after the fact which I did, you are not supposed to knife edge the area between the valves. Why? Yes, aircraft wings have a rounded leading edge and a sharp trailing edge. But, I believe that since I am not tying to "fly" though the air, I am directing the air. How can this be bad? Please explain.

If someone knows differently correct me, but I believe I heard it's to stop the atomized fuel from partially seperating back to a liquid state?
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Ducmarc

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2007, 09:57:19 pm »
sorry was late posting it my mistake it was roadracer22
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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2007, 11:13:39 pm »
I believe the knife edge ,aims the flow and causes unwonted turbulence.
The atomised fuel responds best when the mixture is completely and smoothly enveloped around valve circumference .
More like filling room with fumes that will be sucked out when door is opened,as apposed to aiming a hosed  stream of gas into the corner.
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Ducmarc

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2007, 07:19:12 pm »
all the 996 style ducati heads are knife edged in the intake port and they work pretty good .
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Noidly1

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2007, 10:34:47 pm »
What would it be if it where extrude-honed? Round or sharp? Smooth for sure.
That's If one could even afford to have it done.
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Super Dave

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Re: Tranny Woahs.
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2007, 06:18:09 am »
But, I believe that since I am not tying to "fly" though the air, I am directing the air. How can this be bad? Please explain.
Well, you're not directing air.  It's getting sucked in, and you're hoping it goes some place you want.

On the intake side, you want an amount of surface turbulance to keep a boundary layer of mix that will keep the stuff in the middle from "sticking" to the intake walls and becoming liquid.

Additionally, sometimes you want to shoot the air/fuel mix at a particular part of the combustion chamber.  Yeah, some wisdom believes that you want it everywhere, but, invariably, it doesn't work that way.  Modern combustion chamber shapes usually use the fact that more comes in one way or another to an advantage.  Sometimes there's a reason for shrouding a valve.  Some times there are reasons for decreasing the intake port size so that the velocity of the intake charge is greater.
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Super Dave