Couple of class eligibility questions

Started by Kris87, July 26, 2007, 11:52:04 AM

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Kris87

I havent raced with ccs in two years so i dont know the answer to these questions.  i looked in the rulebook, but one section is unclear. 

First, can a desleeved SV600 run in ultralight sbk?  the rulebook says pre 1999, but there's nothing for post 99 bikes for twin cylinder liquid cooled bikes of any cc's. 

Second, what all bikes can run in lwt supersport?  can the duc 1000's and buells run in this? 

thanks
kris wall

Eric Kelcher

1. Superbike is pretty open on mods but that is 1 of 6 aspects that is controlled.

6.2.1.C. Reducing engine size of machines from stock displacement to meet
lower class displacement limits is not allowed. (i.e. a bike that is a
Heavyweight in origin cannot be re-sized for Middleweight
competition.

2. Some depends on models.
Eric Kelcher
ASRA/CCS Director of Competition

Kris87


benprobst

#3
cheater.


and yes the other cheaters can run LWSS (ducs and buells)  :biggrin:
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roadracer162

I just don't see a 1000 anything being Lightweight although the rules allow it.
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

George_Linhart

Mark - the CCS LW grids have some good performance parity while avoiding the look of an SV cup.  In the Mid West region the class finishes are generally SV, Buell and a Ducati 750SS.  It is still primarilly about rider skill and bike set-up - there is no piece of equipment that makes that equation obsolete.

Others have raised this argument time and time again - if you are racing LW and think one of the other bikes has such a big advantage, nothing to stop you from going out and buying one to race...  There is a reason the SVs are still so popular in the LW class and are not being entirely replaced.  Frankly, a water cooled 4 valve twin has significant advantates against the two valve air cooled twins by either Buell or Ducati even with the displacement advantage.  With a liquid cooled engine you can build a lot more power reliably where the air-cooled motors have real issues becoming a large heat sink.

George

benprobst

George, you're kind of like a broken record, aren't you?
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George_Linhart

Your point?

I've got an opinion - I'm not bashful about it and I'm happy to share it with others.  The subject seems to come up often with certain factions who seem to want to change rules to reduce the level of competition.

Don't like it - feel free to ignore it...

George

roadracer162

George,

I hear what you say and they are some good points. this will be a neverending debate long after we are done with it-always has been.

Here in Florida the Duc 1000DS seems to rule the roost in the LW classes especially in the supersport trim. Duc in SS trim is about 95 rwhp where as the SV in SS trim is 75 rwhp. Where is the parity? The Duc DS seems pretty reliable with that much HP.

Mark
Mark Tenn
CCS Ex #22
Mark Tenn Motorsports, Michelin tire guy in Florida.

123user

Ben,  now you both sound like broken records!   :whine:

The 1000ss is fast, but only if ridden well. 

Mark,

1000ss Horsepower claims are highly exagerated.  On a factory Pro dyno, mine pulled 77 hp.  That's only about 88 on a whirly-jig dyno.  A properly built SV in SS trim is probably only 8 hp down... but doesn't stop revving at 8000rpm

The SV is no different then the hawk or FZR, move on or move over!

George_Linhart

Mark,

Is it the bikes, or the riders that are winning?  Were the same guys that are now winning on the 1000DS back of the pack on other bikes previously, or have the names on the top of the list stayed the same while the bikes changed?

In all seriousness I do think you need to also look at the larger LW class and allow for changes under full Super bike rules because SS is just one single category of the LW class.  Under full Superbike rules, if done right the SV is at no disadvantage.  Look at Ed Key's bike for the definitive example.

With all due respect to Mr. Probst, I will re-loop my broken record.  If the 1000DS is such the cat's meow in Florida and leads to instant on track success there is nothing to stop you from buying one!  Even if we can prove that it is a better bike in SS trim, is evolution bad?  Should we change the rules to go back to restrict LW classes to EX500's, FZR400's and Honda Hawks?

George

123user

Ben,

I think George is probably right.  We both run 1000ss.  His is SB spec, mine is SS spec.  I can tell you there is a difference in power between the two.  Just look at my results from this year... a faster bike hasn't made me any more talented!

You should come over and ride mine some time, we can go down below Potosi and do some speed blasts on highway Z. 

Having a bike that only overrevs to 8.7K is more challenging to ride that a bike that peaks at 9.5K, but can be overreved to 11.5K.

A good comparison is between 250MX'r and a xr400.  Sure the thumpers got more power, but its heavy, the front wheel is 4 inch's further foward than it seems, and its hard to start.  A 250 has got good overrev, a xr400 has none.

I bought the Duc. because it was a good deal and I like having something to complain about/work on.   An SV is a good choice for people that don't want to keep $300 worth of shims laying around, or who doesn't want to replace clutch plates twice per season, or wants to buy spares without spending a small fortune, or doesn't change oil every weekend, or doesn't like buying tires. 

The SV was and remains the best lightweight bike for the masses.  Most people simply don't have the desire or time to maintain an Italian bike. 

From what I can tell, I'm the only person in CCS midwest with a dual spark ducati that has run every single weekend this season.  Really, if your not going to all the races, worrying about class suitability is pretty irrational.