NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races

[red900]

Dont judge the book by it's cover.... 

[251am]

The owner of the shop says, "You're Norwegians from Wisconsin, aren't you?"

"Uff da!" says a surprised Sven. "How'd you know dat?"

The owner says, "Cause this is a dry-cleaners."

      





















gonesbago!ducks!wabbits!honda!suzuki!Yamahahaha!


   

[steve p]

Ok, so now im stupid.... 

LMFAO  

[backMARKr]

      


Don't worry Todd, your helmet numbers will protect you from the craziness.....




















gonesbago!ducks!wabbits!honda!suzuki!Yamahahaha!


   

[xb9racer]

Never said you're stupid. What is the point of your illustrious resume though?
What is the whole point of this thread other than NESBA trying to equate their TD riders as being superior to other racers?
With that I leave you all to this useless, waste of time thread.
Hey. Have fun whether it's TD's or racing....or both. Have fun and be safe.

[red900]

Never said you're stupid. What is the point of your illustrious resume though?
What is the whole point of this thread other than NESBA trying to equate their TD riders as being superior to other racers?
With that I leave you all to this useless, waste of time thread.
Hey. Have fun whether it's TD's or racing....or both. Have fun and be safe.

Since you are leaving, no more time needed answering your questions....

[gntbldr]

Dustin, Thank you for posting up all that you have. I have a lot more respect for you now.


I at one time, after I met you at MAM, had wondered why you were racing amateur when you clearly have the skills to be racing Expert and Eric helped me understand why you are in AM and so have you with a lot of your posts. Cheers to you for your perspective and I always have a great time following you for as long as I can.


Looking forward to seeing you get your white plate and running with others you can truley compete with so as to hopefully better your abilities.

If I can just start to learn how to develop a racer mentality and be more competitive rather than just going out there and riding pretty fast I may just be able to get back up to running in the top 5 steadily again.




kind of on a similar tangent: the racers now that are racing in the middle of this season are far faster than what I was racing against in the first part of the season. imo.
a lot of new names and faces and a lot of good skills popping up all over along with a Lot of the familiar names and faces getting even faster themselves.

This is proving to be a very fun hobby that I never thought I would be as good at as I feel I am doing regardless of points and standings.



but when it comes to trackday whores I guess I'm one of them too.. but only just got into Advanced group last year shortly after I was able to walk again and had the pin taken out of my left index finger I dismembered.

I learned fully what it means to slow down to go faster because I was out on the track while I was sill on disability and if ANYthing was to happen to me I'd lose my job, my parents would lose the house I bought them and I wouldn't be able to support them as I do.

Racing with all you trackwhores, as it's been said,  is proving to be a much more safe racing experience for me since you know a tad more polite way or two on how to pass someone safely and are not out there with the cut-throat carelessness I have encountered here and there at times.


big props to that.

jim jr

[Sklossmonster]

You know, it just doesn't feel like an internet train wreck with twelve pages of useless arguing unless I'm in there somewhere ... so haters prepare your smite buttons!

A few observations from the king of train wrecks, and the consumate trackday whore, me.

1.  Laps do not NECESSARILY equate to skills and speed.  Yes, they can and do help tremendously in most cases, but they guarantee nothing.  Similarly, those of you who think Control Riders/Track coaches have ten times the laps you do need to consider the fact that the majority of the time CR's spend on track is not at their pace.  How much would you improve if you spent the majority of your track time at 20, 30, or 40 seconds off your pace?  Truth be told, I can make a case for how CR'ing actually slows you down.  When I CR, I usually don't get all my Advanced sessions, unlike a member who signs up and rides.  While you go out on track, I do the beginner meeting, while most members take forty minutes to relax, rehydrate, refocuse, refuel, adjust settings, etc.. CR's roll around well off their pace trying to help people learn to go faster, safer, truthfully slowing their minds down and diluting their own sense of speed.  Then we rush in for a splash of gas and water before running out to an  Advanced session that's already underway.  Tired, thirsty, and unfocused.  I know, I know, you're crying a river for us.  I'm not looking for sympathy, just trying to paint a more accurate picture of all that extra "seat time"  CR's get.

2.  One of the divisive issues in this thread centers around the classification "Amateur"  I am of the opinion that more "'racers" should learn how to ride a motorcycle on a racetrack before they compete.  Many on this forum are of the opposite opinion and feel anyone who learns how to ride at a competititve pace before racing is somehow cheating, or "sandbagging"  Someone please tell me how Dustin, Ron, Me, or anyone else who comes from a non racing background, has never started a bike off the line under a green flag, has never raced in the rain, has never raced at all!  Is not an "amateur" roadracer?  This boggles my mind.  Pace doesn't equal experience, although they often come together.  If more people would hone their skills before racing, the races themselves would be safer and more competitive.

Who joins a team without knowing how to play the game?  Who tries to win anything without first trying to get good at it first?  Of course, there's always room for improvement, as evidenced by the fact Dustin, Ron, myself, and most every other "sandbagger" in this discussion dropped several seconds in their first season racing.  A true sandbagger wouldn't improve racing amateurs. They would run their pace, take their wins, and keep sandbagging.

When I first started track riding, there was no doubt in my mind I would NEVER race a motorycle.  Why would I?  I'm too old, too slow, and didn't feel like I actually had a handle of what I was doing out there.  The very term "racer" seemed worlds apart from what I was doing on a racetrack.  Never say never ...  But the implication that some track riders spend years preparing to steamroll an amateur championship is hilarious.  The first time Dustin every asked me about racing was the end of last year! 

3.  I'm not Garth, so I won't speak for him, but I imagine he posted those results in response to the many posts and comments from people who seem to feel trackday riders are undeserving of the same respect racers have, simply because they choose not to race.  I find it hilarious that on one hand trackday riders get not respect because they're not real racers, but when they come out to a race and do well it's only because they're on track all the time ....  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Hilarious, nonetheless.

[red900]

You know, it just doesn't feel like an internet train wreck with twelve pages of useless arguing unless I'm in there somewhere ...

Glad your here.....  I am running out of intelligent things to say..

[Speedballer347]

Marshall,
I do not know you & have never met you.
All I know of you, is that I have read your columns in RRW.
Everything I have ever heard about you was that you were a really nice guy and were a fast rider.
So I suspect you are a really nice guy and really fast    I am just responing with my opinion, I am not trying to start a fight with you or create any kind of ill-will between us 

You keep qouting my "trackday whore" comment.
I have no issue with trackday riders, TD guys waiting to race, TD guys winning, etc.
What I am saying is the super-high-mileage TD guys and TD instructors have a definate advantage over the regular guys.  Someone has a million TD miles and decide to race?  Fine, but don't expect people to be suprised when they win....because they have had far more time to practice for the exam.

As far as what you are saying now, in this post.....
I can see both sides, yours and mine.  But I am more swayed by my end, hence my stance.
Although you defend that bringing tons of TD miles to the plate, shouldn't mean anything in amateur competition.....it was you who made more than one reference to Curt henderson being a previous 'racer', and also made a seemingly negative comment about a racer who had years of experience doing 'starts' in the AMA and somehow was able to get a CCS amateur license.

I suspect you felt like Curt was kind of a cherry-picker to some extenct, that's the impression I got from your readings anyway.  Well, that is exactly how some people feel about multi-year trackday guys coming in and crushing.
Marshall, I am not discrediting you or anyone else.  Congratulations on all of your finishes.  You earned them.  You are fast, you are surely faster than me.
I consider you to be a very talented and fast racer, but the word 'amateur' does not come to mind when I think of you.
Please try to understand where the other side of the table is coming from.  Think back to what you thought about Curt, to what you though about that ex-AMA guy when he was smoking everyone on the starts....

This is a very polarizing thread, with no true 'right' or 'wrongs'.  No one is ever going to agree on it.
I just hope people quit taking this shit personal.  It's just internet (ie; bored) yappings 

[Sklossmonster]

Couldn't let you have all the fun, Dustin!

Seriously though, Speedballer, I get what you're saying, I really do. And to be honest, I never felt like Curt was cherry-picking.  I watched him suddenly "get it" one day at MAM and make the transition from dirt tracker to roadracer.  It was a beautiful thing.  It made us both faster, better riders.  I doubt I would've developed my riding the way I did without Curt there to make me step it up.  And although one could certainly make a case that he was no "amateur" racer, the fact is his first roadrace in his life was the Daytona round last Spring.  So even though he's been racing something or other most of his life, he was still an amateur to roadracing.

To me, cherry pickers and sandbaggers are guys who year after year, carefully watch their points totals so they can keep their yellow plates and win contingency dollars unfairly.  Or when a  two time World Superbike Champion rolls into Daytona for a money race, whether it's wrong or right is a different issue, but to me that's "cherry picking"

Anyway, I don't think any of the people in this discussion are really sandbagging or cherry picking, they may have more practice on a racetrack than some of their competitors, but they have less time under a green flag, so it is what it is.

I actually never intended to race amateur CCS for any length of time.  I knew it was too dangerous for my taste, and was planning on doing a couple of weekends and then petitioning to go expert.  I soon found out, however, that no matter what pace I may have had at a track day, I was no expert racer.  My first several races were a complete disaster.  Why?  No experience in the environment.  I could run fifteens at Blackhawk, but I couldn't get my bike off the starting line, and I couldn't pass to save my life!  Hell, I couldn't even complete my first ever race lap without crashing myself into the hospital.  And not because I didn't have plenty of laps under my belt, but because I had never been in a race of any kind in my life, and I was overwhelmed by the environment.  Thus, my amateur status seemed perfectly appropriate and I decided to do a full amateur season instead of petitioning for the bump I obviously didn't deserve.

I agree people with more practice time have the opportunity to perform better, but it really doesn't guarantee anything, especially not results in a motorcycle race.  I've seen people with tons of laps and practice time totally freak out when the green flag drops.  They actually go slower in the race than they do in practice, because it's so different and intense.  Well, maybe racing isn't for them, regardless of how much practice time they have.

I would sincerely like to see more amateur racers doing trackdays and Friday practices to develop their skills.  I'd also like to see the more aggressive trackday riders "sack up" and go racing, where (in my opinion) that type of aggression belongs.  To me, there's no reason why racers and trackriders can't coexist in a mutually beneficial relationship, where racers get practice at trackdays, and track riders who want more aggressive passing and competition can explore their skills in an agreed upon environment.  It would be better for everyone.

[251am]

  Yes sir, yes sir, those are some super protection #s the Storck is sellin out there. You gotta Kryptonite like competitor? Throw some of his #s on your lid and feel at ease whether your blazin through T2 @BFR screamin in your head at all those trees on rider's right or watchin da sklossmonster disappear in the mirrors trollin down 39 for staties that wanna try and run with you, or draggin a Samps down E. Wash. 


  Mark's #s rock whether your NESBA, CCS, WERA, CMRA, AMA, NHL, NBA, CSS, USGPRU, MOTO ST, WSMC, AFM, AHRMA, Grand Am, MRA, WMRRA, OMRRA, MARRC, or just a gawdanged CW!! gostorckgo!