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NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races

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Speedballer347

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #144 on: July 20, 2007, 10:44:14 pm »
New topic. 
Has there been any BatBoy sightings lately?  Or does the FBI still have him?

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Firecat

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #145 on: July 21, 2007, 12:18:26 am »
I have less track-miles than probably anyone on this board. 
Am I fast?  No. 
Am I complaining about 'fast' guys?  No.
Do I think it is amazing that a trackday whore wins amatuer stuff?  No
Am I impressed with amatuer championships?  Not really. 
Am I impressed with amateur wins?  Sometimes very much, depends on the rider.

I have come to the conclusion that you are a smug unhappy little man who has a serious inferiority complex. Your track whore comment clearly illustrates this. 

I am bewildered at why you would spend the time to post what impresses you and what does not.... You post over and over and over about what impresses you when in reality...who cares what impresses you? 

My only hope is that your opinions aren't indicative of how the CCS community as a whole thinks.



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Firecat

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #146 on: July 21, 2007, 12:20:40 am »
no one is personally attacking anyone.  It's just generalizations.

You seriously have to be joking....or you are a joke....one of the two is applicable. I have a hunch its the latter
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Speedballer347

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #147 on: July 21, 2007, 12:29:25 am »
I have come to the conclusion that you are a smug unhappy little man who has a serious inferiority complex.

 :thumb:
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Burt Munro

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #148 on: July 21, 2007, 12:47:15 am »
I think it's time for more Sven and Ole....

Four guys from Lake Aasgaard went up to Northern Wisconsin fishing. To save a little money, they rented a small cabin that had only two bedrooms. Well, Arne sleeps with Ole the first night and he came to breakfast next morning with his hair a mess, and his eyes all bloodshot.

They all said, "Vat happen to you?"

Arne says, "That Ole, he snores so loud, I was kept avake vatching him all night.

I can't do that 'nother night so vun of you's got to do it"

Since Ole snores so loudly, no one else wanted to room with him, but they finally agree to take turns. The next night is Oscar's turn. In the morning, same thing - hair all standing up, eyes all blood shot. Oscar declares, "Fer sure, dat Ole shakes the roof. And he sleeps so hard, I couldn't vake him. I vatched him all night."

The third night was Sven's turn. Next morning Sven come to breakfast bright eyed and bushy tailed. "

They can't believe it! They say, "Vat happened?"

Sven say, "Well, ve get ready for bed. I go und tuck Ole into bed and kiss him good night. Den he vatches me all night long."
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 12:50:14 am by Burt Munro »
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Burt Munro

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #149 on: July 21, 2007, 12:57:20 am »
Sven and Ole are visiting a relative in Texas. Walking along the street, they see a sign on a store front which reads:

* Suits $5.00 each
* Shirts $2.00 each
* Trousers $2.50 per pair.

Sven says to his pal, "Hey Ole! LOOK! We could buy a whole lot of dem, and ven ve get back to Wisconsin, ve could make a fortune. Now ven ve go into the shop, you be quiet, okay? Yust let me do all da talkin' cause if dey hear our Wisconsin accent dey might tink ve are dumb Norwegians and try to raise da price. But, I can speak with a perfect Texas drawl."

They go in and Sven drawls out an order for 50 suits at $5.00 each, 100 shirts at $2.00 each and 50 pairs of trousers at $2.50 each.

The owner of the shop says, "You're Norwegians from Wisconsin, aren't you?"

"Uff da!" says a surprised Sven. "How'd you know dat?"

The owner says, "Cause this is a dry-cleaners."
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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #150 on: July 21, 2007, 02:54:04 am »
I can maybe offer some personal insight here.  I raced hard for a number of years, ran out of money and then started coaching trackdays.  At Road America this month I raced again after a few years off from competition.
The difference in mindset between racing and trackdays is, "I'm going to ride really fast," and "I'm going to ride as fast as I possibly can."  I'd forgotten this, and while the difference may only be 2 seconds per lap, the concentration and risk are immensely greater when you ride in competition.  Technically, I ride better now than I did during my competition years, but mentally, I don't have the killer edge I used to have.  It would take several weekends of serious racing to get that back.  Don't think I'm not tempted....
The thing is, you'd have to be out of your mind to ride at the absolute edge as a trackday rider.  Why would that be worth the risk?  Besides, how many trackday riders do you see destroying a set of tires in each 20-minute session?
Racing is damn sure different.  Yes, it's good to learn the basics of high-performance riding at trackdays, where the cost and risk of figuring out what you're doing is considerably smaller.  When I started racing, there were no trackdays.  I was a serious hazard to the experts in the combined Am-Ex practice sessions, as well as on the final lap of every combined race when the lead experts caught me as they tried to resolve who was going to win their battle.  It took me a year to get fast enough to finish a GT race without being lapped.  Had I done a season of trackdays first, I'd have been faster and more predictable, making me a safer competitor.  But I still would have had to learn racecraft in order to dice it up with my fellow racers.  You either follow the rules of passing etiquette or get thrown out at a trackday, no matter how fast you are.  This is something I now struggle with when I choose to race, and it would be no different for any trackday rider new to racing.
Someone had made the comment that he hadn't seen much real instruction at trackdays.  I can't speak for other orgs, but as lead instructor for Sportbike Track Time's novice program, I can assure you that we teach PLENTY of skill related material in a very intense series of classrooms and drills, and once a novice has moved on to the faster groups he or she can still get one-on-one help at any time, from any coach.
Personally, I can't see what there is to debate.  Trackdays have drawn countless people into this sport who never would have considered racing and would have otherwise stayed home.  Some of these people do eventually race, making the sport stronger and the grids bigger.  Even those trackday riders who never race still contribute to racing by buying and using the same parts racers need, thus making the aftermarket stronger and lowering the amortised cost of R&D by spreading it over a larger market.  That means cheaper, better parts and motorcycles for everyone!
If you're a racer, try to find it in your heart not to bash trackday riders.  They either dream of becoming like you, or someday WILL become like you.  In any case, they love the same thing you love; going fast around a racetrack.  If you must hate, wouldn't your energy be better spent dissing helmetless squids acting like assholes in traffic or the straight-pipe Harley crowd that wakes you up at 4AM on their way home from the bars?

Hey, I'm just throwing my opinion out here, and I sure don't intend to spend any time debating those who disagree with me....
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Woofentino Pugrossi

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #151 on: July 21, 2007, 03:19:14 am »
Well said Chris.


Now can we just let this thread die?
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red900

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #152 on: July 21, 2007, 03:37:19 am »
Burt, I can appreciate your attempts to put out the fire.  You have done a pretty good job. 

The fact is this did get personal, because I am one of the "Track day whores" that is so unimpressive.  I have, as stated earlier. trained the past 4 years essentially to find myself at a point in which I felt worthy of racing.  My intention was never to become a racer, as I believe the majority of the best athletes plans were not to be at the level they found themselves.  I believe the vast majority started out as I, practicing as a hobby, with the passion to get better.  Little did they, or I know that I might actually be good at this.  So with continued hard work and dedication we all worked harder to one day find ourselves in a position to be ridiculed by the jealous for our talents.  The main point is if you do what you always did, you will get what you always got.  Don't look out the window for answers, look in the mirror. 

As a control rider, that does not get any money for my donations, I will state a couple of truth's. 
  Whether you do track days or racing, whether you run Nascar, play basketball, golf, or sing in the shower you will not get better without practice.  It is your choice if you want to practice in a race or at a trackday.  Practice at a race and you will have to be willing have alot of low finishes in your quest to win.  The growth is the same either road you take.   On the other hand, you can do trackdays and instead of alot of low place finishes, you will place dead last at every trackday.  You will go through the same growing pains, crashes, revelations, and breakthroughs to achieve the same goal. The environment will be the different.  There will be people there interested in helping you get better where in a race most are focused on the race rather than your personal growth.  Even as a control rider, when I am in a race I see nothing but my own task ahead.  I take zero time to critique a slower rider in an effort to help them grow.  At a track day, you have about 20 control riders full attention and dedication to help you grow.  I know, I am one of them.

In racing you will have to be able to deal with an inferiority complex for the years until you have earned the ability to finish at the top.  Hopefully, instead of jealousy, you will look deeper and realize that the people you are jealous of are no different that you,except they have just gained the knowledge and experience that you have not.  Your next question should be how do I get that good?  It should be a never ending cycle.  Did I look at Ben Thompson or Andy Fohyerstaller this last weekend in jealousy, for a moment, but I realized that I am better served to go up and pick their brains and try to unlock the secrets.  And finally, just push myself to put up or shut up.  Push myself to the edge once again.  What am I willing to risk to ride at that level?   

It takes no less effort to win a race no matter where you trained and deserves no less appreciation.  If you win, you won. If you step out on the field and beat me, you have my respect.  Now, show me how you did it.  Tell me what it takes to get there.   :cheers:

Dustin Boyd
NESBA MW Control rider
CCS #950 am
and a helluva nice guy if you wanna talk...

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Speedballer347

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #153 on: July 21, 2007, 03:58:29 am »

Dustin Boyd
CCS #950 am


Ah haaaa.....I was wondering who the novice guy was that was rolling with us at the very front of the expert pack in GTO. 
You sat behind me and Mark Nudleman the whole race.  I crashed out of the lead on the last lap in T7, Mark got 1st Ex....you won amatuer.
Nice racing!  You were smoking fast, couldn't believe there was an amatuer sitting right behind us.
I don't know ya, but you are indeed fast, and very fast for an am  :thumb:


« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 04:07:22 am by Speedballer347 »
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red900

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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #154 on: July 21, 2007, 04:23:32 am »
Yep, I knew who you were.  I was there when you crashed too.....   

I know Nude also.  He and I have had some great conversations and some great racing.  Although I am very respectful of the fact that he and I are not truly racing each other and I will never get in the middle of a heated expert battle.  But, with that being said I do enjoy dicing it up if there is nobody else around.

So, know that you know who I am do you feel any different?  The fact that I ran 7 races that sunday at gateway, the fact I had 6 inches of standing water when I was changing to rain tires on pit lane, the fact that I crashed my 600 bending the radiator and skipping lunch to fix it,  the fact that I work just as hard or harder than everyone out there to achieve my goals. 

Have I earned any respect or am I just some sandbagging trackday whore who deserves nothing more that a mere golf clap? :rollseyes:
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 04:46:31 am by red900 »
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Re: NESBA trackday riders place well at CCS / ASRA Road America Races
« Reply #155 on: July 21, 2007, 05:23:55 am »
I do think some here are very paranoid.  I'm not personally attacking anyone.
But I also think it's retarded to say "these are OUR TD riders and look how good they are." I know Joel. He's very fast for an AM. But he's also done over 12 TD so far this year with various organizations. God Almighty!! He better be fast with that much track time!! I don't care what organization he runs with!! 
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