third class

[Ducmarc]

since it's slow on the forum any thoughts on an intermediate class. it seems we have a fast attrition rate. I think gxrmike said it was 3.5 years is that 1 year slow novice 1 yr fast novice 1 year slow expert .5 yr still slow then give up .I have several friends that either have moved up and quit or only race a couple a races to avoid moving. maybe a class where slow experts and fast amateurs could race.maybe use a performance index. didn't they have a Jr class in the 70's?

[Jeff]

Only if they run pink plates.

[Ducmarc]

you mean a girllie class??????? Iwas thinking a nice aarp color or a handicap sign .

[truckstop]

Ahem, Girlie class? While I'd be interested in a women's series like they have in Canada, I'm not sure there's enough women racing in the US for a girlie class. :P Maybe if y'all would stop picking on JZ more girls would think about it. ;)

Anyway... isn't this sort of chicken and egg? They have Novice/AM/EX some places, but then they have much larger fields. This seems like a smart thing as it keeps us rank noobs out of the mix, but I'm not sure it helps once you advance unless it makes it harder to get into Expert. It seems like it would be difficult to do this in regions where there's a large disparity between sizes of classes. I'm clinging to the hope that they keep ULWSB in the Midwest, even though they've combined the AMs and EXs because the class is so teeny and not getting any bigger. It'd be easy to have 3 levels for the middle weights, (where it seems to be most needed) but then how would you handle where someone goes if they move to light weight - or bring different bikes to race in different weight classes?

[Ducmarc]

i'm all for a womans series i've got a wife and 3 daughters that have an interest in racing you gather the women and we could put on something but thats not what i'm thinking about .smaller classes three waves mabe an extra race for 600s I think the grids would be larger for the  lighter classes all I run is light weight. I could not stand to run a class with no hope of at least a podium.what ideas does anybody have to keep us backmarkers racing

[truckstop]

I know what you meant, that's what all the smilies were for. As a female, I honestly don't know if I'd want a women's series or not. That's another question though - if a women's race series would promote getting more women into the sport or not. I dunno. Even back when I did a couple ice races in cars, winning a ladies class trophy seemed kind of... hollow. I have this crazy notion that in four wheels or on two, that gender shouldn't matter.

As for the original topic...
Kind of in the same vein, I'm not sure it's right to have more classes just for more people to have the chance to podium or that it would help.

People already complain about there being too many classes so I'm not sure that would change anything. Having a third plate color/level within the bigger existing classes might help... just don't know if that would work logistically.

And I'm not sure if the attrition is due to not getting on the podium... this is an expensive thing to do, and people run out of money, or move on, get injured, slow down, have families, etc.

[Ducmarc]

I wonder how well the Canadian league does. my daughter talks of racing in it .I think a woman's race as a side line would not work but a woman's weekend might.with the amount of woman pleasure riding and the interest the JZ thread made. right now amateur is a temporay class for riders they are there for a year and move up the good ones go up front the slow ones can't move  back so they ride in the back or quit.how many years can you use up your time money and energy to ride 15th or 20th.i'm going to the store will pick back up in a few hrs  marc

[Jason748]

Doesn't the LRRS have a third class?

Only if they run pink plates.

That's just pain mean    

[Ducmarc]

just checked and yes they do have 3 classes with  the champion moving up their points system is also based on the number of entries

[Super Dave]

I have advocated a three class system for some time. 

A "sportsman" type class with all the current classes.  Points, championships, etc.  Most current amatures would be part of that class with some current experts. 

A true amateur class that would have very limited classes, no points for any championships, and around a 18 month limit for a rider to learn the sport, if they choose...they could move to the sportsman class sooner, if they and the race director agree.

Finally, and expert class featuring fewer classes, a little longer races, higher entry fees, and a purse structure.

[HAWK]

I think there are already too many classes, the problem is that if you create a new novice class you dilute the number if entries and you now have three 5 bike races going on at once instead of two 8 bike races. This has ramafications in various ways, it makes scoring more dificult, changes contingency payouts, and in the grand scheme of things really doesn't change anything in terms of safety as you have the exact same riders on the track. Worst of all how do you handle the burden of additional races without shortening the race length? Right now there are several races where multiple classes run at the same time, ULW and LW being one example, you would have a 6 wave start or have to add another race to the schedule.

[Super Dave]

Well, I guess you'd need more information from me on my idea first...LOL!

The beginner class would have three classes.  Lightweight, Middleweight, and Unlimited.  Specifically, these would not be points paying classes, again, and they are for riders to learn the sport.  Currently, there are, what, seventeen classes?

I'd leave Sportsman the same as it is, although I think there are some that could be changed...merge Superbike into Grand Prix.

I think there would be six or eight expert classes. 

Overall, there should be room in a two day schedule for this.


Now, why?

Well, over all these years, the average "life" of a racer hasn't changed.  Couple, few years, then they are out.  Well, that's a lot of work to develop new customers.  Hence, there's something broken with the system, my opinion. 

There are riders that love racing, but fear the move to expert.  For some, that problem is so great that they quit when they are forced to wear the white plate.  That's a loss of revenue.  Some ride in many different organizations to maintain their amateur status.  That's a loss of revenue for some organization out there.  Next, there are experts that never feel that they will be able to compete with some of the other experts, and they leave the sport. 

Invariably, a lot of those riders just go do some track days.  They may never progress more in their riding, but it is a loss of revenue to the racing organization, period. 

It seems that adding more and more and more classes is the only answer for racing organizations to get more riders from an increasing population of motorcyclists.  But I can't say that racing organizations are seein generalized increases in overall growth because of more motorcyclists.  I know that it goes up and down in cycles, but I don't recognize there being so many more racers this year vs last year vs years ago.  I'm sure that CCS and WERA have other numbers, but I'm just generalizing on my own experiences. 

I think CCS still has that record of 2025 entries for the April Road America date in 2001.  That's six years old now.  We've probably went through two up and down cycles by now too.