Re: Irac- I need to vent

[Super Dave]

As an American, yes, we do have a differnet point of view.  

Let this put something in perspective....

You family has lived in a particular region for hundreds, if not thousands of years.  It's your place.  Now bring some more people in, have families...

I mean lets look at Europeans.  If you're German, let's say, you and your past generations have live in a small region.  Mabye about the size of Texas?  And the family lives there for generation after generation.

My two aunt's live in California, my Dad lives in Nebraska.  We live in very different areas.  We're much more mobile that way.  If need be, I could up and move to some place else.

My family came from Poland in 1865.  The family and friends they left behind were probably never heard from again.  And they knew that when they left.  There wasn't any turning back.  And if you didn't make it, well, you might just die in the American Frontier.

We've got so much to fall back on.  

If you live in a desert, about all you have is the community, the family, of people that you are with.  You have to stick together to survive.

[racer46]

On the flip side, there are individuals that breed such terrible thoughts, ideas, and actions.  And they get people to think the same way.  Ultimately, those people make a choice.  Whether it is to blow themselves up, torture someone, fly a plane into a building, and an on going list of things...  And I always thought it came down to education somewhere;  placing that bad though in someone's mind.  And the back and forth just continues to reinforce what happens.

some palestinains live in refugee camps, with no running water, barely any food and nothing to do, if you lived like this i'm sure you would look at the people who did this and hate. when a US made israeli helicopter goes and bombs a building, little kids go and play in the rubble, many times they find a piece of the bomb "MADE IN THE USA", so to them the USA is doing this to them, but i know that still does not justify killing civivlians.

Has Yassir Arrafat lost control?  And is he relevant anymore?  At times, it just seems as though no one is listening to him even when he is promoting something good.  (Are we going back to that respect thing again....)

yes i think he also has lost control and i think he needs to be replaced as well. but the thing is he has no control because the israeli army will decide to take over his building and not let him move, and they have no connection to the outside world rather than the batteries left in their cell phones, then the army says "we're not leaving till you stop the bombings" well you can't stop them when you have no connection to the outside world.

also, when was the last time you heard of a suicide bombing in israel? it's been awhile, right? well how come the media doesn't say this, israel as we speak is attacking the palestinians while there are no retaliations by the palestinians, this is the cise fire they keep asking for to restart talks, but they wait till another bombing happens then they go and say they need a cise fire.

[racer46]

Racer, Your Grandfather had a very difficult life, but, on a positive note, the Israeli's did you a favor, if they hadn't forced him out, you'd be right in the middle of it, socially obligated to strap on a bomb. Things work out for the best.

in a way yes but i have to disagree. if israel was never created where it was then this whole issue would have never came up, and most likely the whole region would be peaceful. and no i would not be socaily obligated to strap a bomb and go. i have a cousin who is 15 and lives in the west bank, he has no intentions to go out and do a suicde bomb. the worse he ever did was throw rocks at an israeli tank than was sitting in front of his house. if you did a poll on how many think sucude bombings are ok it would be close to 1%, because when someone goes and does a suicde bombing they just make it worse for their own people, because israel comes the next day and buldozes the house of all the relatives of whoever did it.

did you ever think of why someone would kill themself? islam says that you should never kill yourself. so that means their life would have to be so bad, so painful that they would rather die than live another day.

[Super Dave]

if you did a poll on how many think sucude bombings are ok it would be close to 1%, because when someone goes and does a suicde bombing they just make it worse for their own people, because israel comes the next day and buldozes the house of all the relatives of whoever did it.

did you ever think of why someone would kill themself? islam says that you should never kill yourself. so that means their life would have to be so bad, so painful that they would rather die than live another day.

And I think that's where the boat get's missed.  Why is it always the loud minority that gets heard.  

I enjoyed John Stuart Mill...    Basically, he thought that free speech should be allowed...  in order to show how stupid some points of view are.  I'm paraphrasing a bit...  but the concept.  And suicide bombings are stupid, but some people lump all of those people with all the good people that think it's stupid.  

Where it get's bad is like in Germany after WWII.  When the Allies were rebuilding, they found that about 1/3 of the people were Nazi's.  They just had to work with them.

[Super Dave]

And this just came to me from a family member...  I think it is relevent at this time....

 
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Subject: PRAY BEFORE IT STARTS PRAY BEFORE IT STARTS A torch has been lit today to be passed along to your e-mail friends...asking them to pass it along....and along....and along.  We can do something about the threat of war; both in Iraq and with terrorists.  In the Old Testament, God's armies were always led by the priests.  When the waters parted in the Jordan, it was the priests' feet which first hit the turbulent river.  In the New Testament, Christians are also referred to as priests...all Christians.
 
We must, therefore, go in first.

As the possibility of war approaches with Hussein and Iraq, we are asking the priests to step in first.....ahead of our military.  Let us be setting up camp for our soldiers' entrance into the conflict.  How?  By prayer.
  
Let us be sending in "prayer missiles," "cruise and scud prayers" to target enemy plans.  "Patriot prayers" to shoot down incoming threats.  

We should be praying for two things: (1) that the enemy leaders become confused, disoriented, and distrustful of each other; that their entire system of attack fall apart, and (2) that in God's wildest ways, these enemies would become aware of His deep love for them and the war Jesus has already fought for them, personally, on the cross.
God had Gideon reduce his army from 32,000 to 300 men.  He then equipped them with nothing but trumpets, pitchers, and torches.  What an odd combination to fight off well-armed soldiers.  When Gideon gave the command, the Bible says the enemy fled crying and turned on each other...all because God messed with enemy plans.
 
Prayers were started for this about a month ago.  On CNN last weekend a report came out that although Hussein has nothing to lose, his generals do.  

Is confusion beginning to develop?  Please pray for God to set the stage for defeat of all those who intend to do harm.  When our men and women of uniform arrive on the scene, may they be surprised at how God had camp set up before they ever got there.
 
Would you please do two things?

(1) pray, and (2) pass this along to those you know will pray.

[magyar]

 Who is making me angry......Hollywood, not one of those idiots is living in our world. Speaking for the "American people" blamming America, I for one would like to start a boycot of everything hollywood especially Spike Lee and Richard Gere and Madona to name a few. I for one will not be spending any money on movies, that includes rentals. Nor will I buy anything endorsed by any American bashing celebrity. Those of you who are behind America are urged to do the same. Start pro America rallies in you towns, not pro war rallies as they will try to make it seem. We have to show the Admisistration, the Military, and brain dead Hollywood we do have a voice. Read the paper, or check out the internet news sites and you will see there is a big problem involving the celebrities that think they are speaking for America. It is a great thing to have a different opinion, it's what makes this country what it is. But it is another thing to undermine it. I hope this message finds you enraged as I.

[Baltobuell]

  Isrial was created before your lifetime. Your grandfather had a right to be pissed, but in the end he did more for his family by leaving than he ever could have by staying. I'm sure as he looks down he is pleased at the final outcome. I don't know, it seems you carry alot of resentment when your reality is that you are an American, were raised by a Doctor, and are apparently doing well. Americans commit suicide everyday, but they normally do it alone and don't blame someone else for their dispair. Pain has no border, niether does happiness. Money and power have marginal effect. If your concern is about your cousin, help him out of there. But carrying a 50 year old grudge is fruitless.

  For the last 10 years or so I've been very turned off by organized religion. Bible thumpers can find a passage that backs up just about any distorted view on anything. I guess it's the same with the Koran. I don't see Binladin doing what he professes, yet he still has followers. Individual prayer seems to work best in any religon.

[racer46]

 Isrial was created before your lifetime. Your grandfather had a right to be pissed, but in the end he did more for his family by leaving than he ever could have by staying. I'm sure as he looks down he is pleased at the final outcome. I don't know, it seems you carry alot of resentment when your reality is that you are an American, were raised by a Doctor, and are apparently doing well. Americans commit suicide everyday, but they normally do it alone and don't blame someone else for their dispair. Pain has no border, niether does happiness. Money and power have marginal effect. If your concern is about your cousin, help him out of there. But carrying a 50 year old grudge is fruitless.

see the thing is it's not like the problem is over today either, people get killed everyday because they are christian or muslim, i'm not angry about what happened to my grandpa, it's that over 50 years later it's still happening to many people. yes americans kill them selves every day, but those reasons are different than those of palestinains, again i'm not justifying it, it's just different, americans kill them selves because they don't have friends, are over weight, something of that nature, our lives in america is a luxury compared to theirs, again these are still reasons and i'm not saying it's easy living the way depressed americans and anyone else do. palestinians kill themselves because ever time they walk out their front door they have a great chance of being killed, the other day my cousin's best friend was shot in the head by an israeli soilder while he was walking to school, why? nobody knows, they just found his body in the street. again we need to remember it's a small population of americans and palestinians who do comit suicde.

[Chef]

In Jesus' name

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

  PRAY BEFORE IT STARTS PRAY BEFORE IT STARTS A torch has been lit  to be passed along ..asking them to pass it along....and along....and along.    God's armies were always led by the priests.   Christians are   as priests...all Christians.
 
We must, therefore, go in first.
 
Let us be sending in "prayer missiles," "cruise and scud prayers" to target enemy plans.  "Patriot prayers" to shoot down incoming threats.  

We   pray  for two things: (1) that the enemy leaders become confused, disoriented, and distrustful of each other; that their entire system of attack fall apart, and (2) that in God's ways, these enemies would become aware of His deep love for them and the war Jesus has already fought for them, personally, on the cross.

God had Gideon reduce his army from 32,000 to 300 men.  He then equipped them with nothing but trumpets, pitchers, and torches.  What an odd combination to fight off well-armed soldiers.  When Gideon gave the command, the Bible says the enemy fled crying and turned on each other...all because God messed with enemy plans.
 
Prayers were started for this  

   Please pray for God to set the stage for defeat of all those who intend to do harm.  When our men and women of uniform arrive on the scene, may they be surprised at how God had camp set up before they ever got there.
 
Would you please do two things?

(1) pray, and (2) pass this along to those you know will pray.

Amen

[Baltobuell]

 So get him out of there. He deserves a future. If it is really that bad get him out of there before he becomes a psychotic. The State took my grandfathers farm for the interstate, somebody got rich but nobody in my family, oh well, my life is good because I made it that way, I'm not standing on I695 claiming my right to the beltway throwing rocks at cars. Somebody somewhere maybe Genieva, said Israel was going to be Israel. It's law, it sucks for a large group, but that's the way it is. The Israeli army sucks, but you said there haven't been any bombings lately, duh, it's about power and they have it. Legally and milatarily. They are scared pooless of the 1% and the 1% is what is keeping the Palistinians screwed to the wall. Help your cousin find a better life. Tomorrow is a brand new day. I'm sure both of you will see long term benefits.

[Baltobuell]

 Gad Zooks, I swore I wouldn't get sucked back into this.
 Daves new name should be super deep thinkin Dave. I'll admit, him and Racer are way beyond me, and Ice too because he has the sense to keep quiet. When will I learn. I guess I'm a happy little fly.

[EX#996]

I guess I'm a happy little fly.

Me too.

Dawn   ;D