Re: Irac- I need to vent

[Super Dave]

The US is the great experiment...  And it's a republic, which is a bit different.  I think freedom is probably the most important thing.

However, if we fight, we fight for the right that we have to protect ourselves from those that seem to want to provide my family with harm.  My wife sat down and asked me about chemical warefare.  You spent some time in, so I'm sure you remember the drills, symptoms, and have seen enough films to understand what this can be.  

Be a man about it.  Come at me with a gun.  These terrorist nations want to toss dirty bombs in shopping malls, hotels, chemical attacks in subways.  I'm sure they would have no problem in bombing my son's first grade classroom.  You can sit and watch families dies an awful, horrible, painful death...  Or we can go take care of this business.  

As for the Israeli's...  They aren't saints...no pun intended...but they have enough military might that IF they really wanted to, they could really let loose on ALL of the people that they suspect.  Look how tiny they are, and look at all the unrest around them.  And again, these rich people are educating the poor how bad they are, offering families money when a son or a brother blows himself up in a shopping area.  

Personally, I can hardly believe that the Israeli's can keep themselves under control with the punishment that they have received.  

another thing is that after the gulf war which i think was only about one month long there were many incodents of vets coming back and being very violent, killing there wives, and we all know what timothy mcveah(sorry can't spell) did. and a high percent are still receving government aid because of being sick.

I think it was said a long, long time ago...war is hell.  Sometimes things must be done.  If we want to form more correlations, not causes, we can talk about how the Super Bowl affects the stock market.  (I've got a research degree...I can be a pain...and make any statistic say what I want too.)

The role of a soldier can be rather violent.  It's really part of the game.  We can say a lot about drug dealers too.  

So, what's the risk...

We go in, take care of business for ourselves and the world.  Stabilize the region for all the Arabs.

Or sit back while terrorists target and murder the families of the United States.

[ice]

europeans already pay $4 per LITER of gas, that turns out to be about $10 per gallon            

Can anyone explain to me why gas is so high in other parts of the world?  I just returned from Argentina and Brasil where I saw similar gas prices and this always baffles me.  And I thought Nutec was expensive......

Also, I must say that the political conversation here is refreshing.  To keep it that way, I'll stay out of it  :-X

[racer46]

Can anyone explain to me why gas is so high in other parts of the world?  I just returned from Argentina and Brasil where I saw similar gas prices and this always baffles me.  And I thought Nutec was expensive......

Also, I must say that the political conversation here is refreshing.  To keep it that way, I'll stay out of it  :-X

why? because saudi arabia kisses our ass and does whatever we tell them to do, we are the luckiest people in the world, we are really the only people who have never experienced a war on our own turf and we get everything cheap from everybody. if you were a little country with little power wouldn't you be scared as hell from the US, knowing the US is still stuck in the 20th centry of war and not deplomacy. ever since WWII europe has had little or no military, they solve there problems with deplomacy, and if they need more than that then it goes to NATO, does the arab/muslim world hate europe? no.

[racer46]

As for the Israeli's...  They aren't saints...no pun intended...but they have enough military might that IF they really wanted to, they could really let loose on ALL of the people that they suspect.  Look how tiny they are, and look at all the unrest around them.  And again, these rich people are educating the poor how bad they are, offering families money when a son or a brother blows himself up in a shopping area.

the reason everybody in that area hates israel is for one reason. in 1947 what was palestine (they were living in peace christians/muslims/jews) was taken and given to the jews, all the christians and muslims were kicked out by force, on fridays all men were taken from mosques and on sundays all men were taken from the church, put in a boat and shipped to lebannon. now if you were suddenly taken from your country and thrown into another as a refugee and for 54 years and still given no repect, what would you do? now imagine the arab countries who have to take care of the 5-6+ million people. thats why they hate israel, why hate the US? because the US pays israel billions of dollars per year in military aid, what do they do? kill the remaining muslims and christians in israel. up until the last 5 years the palestinians have been silent about it and ever since they started fighting back people think they're blood hungry people, which is wrong.

[Baltobuell]

 Wait a minute racer, I've been staying out of it hoping the thread would go away, but Terrorists have been pelting Europe harder than the US. Germany and France are scared because they get hit so often. Any disturbance is going to cause a backlash and they are closer. Saddam is going to set off whatever he has in this next attack and they may suffer. I'd be cautious too. They don't hate Europians, they just blow them up in the coffee shops. As a group, generations have come and gone blowing innocent people up. Are you sure they should have nucular bombs and anthrax? Your childrens lives, everything you dream of, everything you've worked for, everthing that keeps you from eating tree bark or your neighbor too survive, depend on this decision. War sucks, loosing sucks a whole lot more and do you think Iraq is going to send aid after they set off a nuke? This isn't about the price of gas.

[Super Dave]

Can anyone explain to me why gas is so high in other parts of the world?  I just returned from Argentina and Brasil where I saw similar gas prices and this always baffles me.  And I thought Nutec was expensive......

Because most other governments are socialist.  So, they tax the daylights out of things.  This is another reason why motorcycles are more popular in other parts of the world...along with motorcycle racing.

[Super Dave]

why? because saudi arabia kisses our ass and does whatever we tell them to do, we are the luckiest people in the world, we are really the only people who have never experienced a war on our own turf and we get everything cheap from everybody. if you were a little country with little power wouldn't you be scared as hell from the US, knowing the US is still stuck in the 20th centry of war and not deplomacy. ever since WWII europe has had little or no military, they solve there problems with deplomacy, and if they need more than that then it goes to NATO, does the arab/muslim world hate europe? no.

I think we kiss Saudi Arabia.  They have ties to some of this, but we don't make a big stink about it in the press.  We must be careful.

The Revolutionary War, War of 1812, The Civil War, Pearl Harbor...

But we do look out for the rest of the world.  WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, other smaller conflicts.  Europe solving problems with diplomacy?  Right!  I think it was because of the might of the United States economy, the will of the people, and the far sightedness of those in power that could see that we had to unite in Europe to stop what could happen.

We won the Cold War with our economy.  We out spend the Soviet Union, we made technological advances that they could never do in a society that does not reward innovation and picking yourself up.

Do some Arab people hate Europe?  I'm sure.  Do all Arabs hate Americans or the United States?  No.

Why are Americans so down on America?  That's my question...

[Super Dave]

the reason everybody in that area hates israel is for one reason. in 1947 what was palestine (they were living in peace christians/muslims/jews) was taken and given to the jews, all the christians and muslims were kicked out by force, on fridays all men were taken from mosques and on sundays all men were taken from the church, put in a boat and shipped to lebannon. now if you were suddenly taken from your country and thrown into another as a refugee and for 54 years and still given no repect, what would you do?

It was the dilomacy of the United Nations that created the state of Israel.  I am not perfect on that side of history, but that is the start.  

For thousands of years the area has been a Hebrew area.  Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham, had his changed by God to Israel.  

Indeed it is a very perilous region.  With the origins of Judiaism, Christianity, and Islam from the area it is a struggle.

Respect.  I understand.  I agree.  I feel as though you might be Arabic by the way you write.  I understand the wish for respect.  And I give that respect to all because we are men (and women).  That is how respect should be given.  

I feel the plight of the Arab people displaced by Israel.  I understand their struggle to maintain something.  The disrespect on all sides is very trouble some.

Back to the original topic.  I have no respect for a man that murders his own people.  Why should anyone?  I feel the threat, the disrespect, that terrorists, and those that support it, that they pose to me, my family, my friends, and my country, and others.

Is this not agreeable?  

American Imperialism...

Fight a war against a dictator.  Offer support and aid to those who wish to stop him.  Sacrifice the lives of our children to stop the killing.  Our work, our might.  We stop the enemy, forgive the debts to the ones we help,  When the war is over, we rebuild the "offending" country from ruins, offer our support and money to protect them.

That was WWII.  We stopped fighting and started working together.  Respect!

At what point do the suicide bombings stop?  In my short life time, they have never stopped.  Will they ever?  What is the aim of them?  There is no respect in those actions.  They only serve to increase the divide.

[unforgivenracing]

KILL EM' ALL , let god ( or ala as they call it) sort em' out.  And if France has a problem with it, Bomb there ass too. Who the hell is France anyway. They have the economy on South Africa and the population of Ethiopia. If it wasn't for us they would all have nazi emblems on there head.  I'm with you 100% on this one BaltoBuell >:(

Well guy, France is a nation that likes to get in over its head on many issues, then have some one else help them out of it.  Remember your history?  Say, WW II?  We should have never given them so much of a pull in the UN (if any) after that war.  I was in Desert Storm, :-[ >:( and I can tell you this.  If it was not for France being involved with the sease fire that brought our guys home, ??? But did'nt allow an end to anything, :( we would not have this problem now. >:(  Place France under Marshall law (gust while we get the job done), ;) support the Turks, ;) invade Bagdad from all sides, ;D and kill the Bastards who are the problem. ;D  Then let the French  :P"Police"  :Pthe nation while there own people make a new government for themselves. 8)  While we watch over the hole thing.  >:( >:( >:(  

[Super Dave]

France...  I'll leave that part at that.

As for finishing off Saddam in the "first" Persian Golf War...

Yes, it would probably have been to some advantage at this time.  But, we'll go back to that respect thing again, the local governments, the Arab community, felt that driving the Iraqi army out of the country that they occupied was sufficient.  Going further to get Saddam was not what they wanted.  We were part of a coalition army.  Sure, we had a huge part in it all, but what was done was the right thing to do.

If we had went on and done in Saddam for our reasons, good or bad, even in hind sight, we would have disrespected the Arab community in their own lands.  And thus we left...

Indeed, Saddam was relatively isolated for years.  Then in 1998(?) he kicked the UN inspectors out.  And that has led to what we have now.  

[racer46]

The Revolutionary War, War of 1812, The Civil War, Pearl Harbor...

But we do look out for the rest of the world.  WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, other smaller conflicts.

first those wars except for the revolutionary war were civil wars, not against other people, so it's different. and anyway they are too far back for any of us to know what is was like, WWII happened on european soil, they know what it takes to have to completely rebuild their countries.

as for korea, vietnam and the other stuff, it really didn't help anything, we lost vietnam, and look at korea, it was just found they HAVE a missle able to hit the west coast.

[racer46]

It was the dilomacy of the United Nations that created the state of Israel.  I am not perfect on that side of history, but that is the start.  

For thousands of years the area has been a Hebrew area.  Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham, had his changed by God to Israel.  

Indeed it is a very perilous region.  With the origins of Judiaism, Christianity, and Islam from the area it is a struggle.

Respect.  I understand.  I agree.  I feel as though you might be Arabic by the way you write.  I understand the wish for respect.  And I give that respect to all because we are men (and women).  That is how respect should be given.  

I feel the plight of the Arab people displaced by Israel.  I understand their struggle to maintain something.  The disrespect on all sides is very trouble some.

the UN resolution, said that israel should be made without the expense of a country for the palestinians, basically they can have their country if they don't take someone elses, but they did anyway.

yes that are was a jewish area in the beginning, but when the country was under the control of muslims and christains it was very peaceful the jews that lived there got along great with the christians and muslims that lived there. but as soon as it was taken away and made israel it became very violent, and became jews vs. christians/muslims. and i have proof to back it up, my sister (she's in high school) works at a nursing home. she talked to a man and his wife, the man was stationed in palestine before it was made into israel, he and his wife said it was one of the most peaceful places they had ever been to. they came back in the 1950's for a vacation when it was israel and left early because it was completely different and they did not like the new atmosphere.

terrorism, sucide bombing is bad and wrong, no normal person can deny that, but what give the us in the US the power to govern the world, it is because of us the talaban started, it is because of us iraq has dangerous weapons, we get into other peoples busness screw their world, then leave and say it's their fault when their radicals attack us.

look at afganistan, it's still f***ed up, or presence there is doing nothing, yes we freed them, but we need to work harder to stabalize and get their country going before we go off and do the same to iraq.