Re: Irac- I need to vent

[Dawn]

Just wait... you'll eventually find a point of disagreement...  It's inevitable...  I'm not saying my marriage is so shallow that I can't disagree with my wife, but it does lead to some rather lively discussions ;-)

Jeff:

It was a joke.  Paul and I are both passionate, strong willed, bull-headed people with a German heritage.  Any one who knows us, knows that there is no way that Paul would agree with everything I say.   ;)

We do have "lively" conversations at times.

Dawn   :)

[ice]

Baltobuell

Thought you might like this:


http://vampirebat.com/obeythefist/AC130_GunshipMed.wmv

http://military-graphics.net/ac130/ac-130tossingflares.jpg

[Baltobuell]

There are 2 methods of winning, the one by law, the other by force: the 1st method is that of men, the 2nd of beasts, but as the 1st method is often insufficient, one must have recourse to the 2nd.

 Thanks, I wasn't going to answer, but that was just too easy.
 Somebody start some new threads!

[racer46]

sorry everyone i don't mean to bring back this topic, but when i read it i had to respond.

ever since WWI the arab world has been f***ed, this is partly our fault, spliting out the whole reigon into seprate countries. the only reason the arab world is so bad is because of the leaders. they live rich wonderful lives when the rest of the country lives in poverty or close to it. when islam was first spreading in the area and was powerful it was the center of intelect in the world and all people were treated fairly until one bad leader ruined it for all.

anyways lets not forget that all arabs aren't muslim, many of them are christian just like us. they don't really care about terrorising, all they care about is living another day and not being killed in their own home infront of their kids. israel is also a big part of the whole issue, they violated over 60 UN resolutions about weapons of mass distruction, they don't allow weapons inspectors like every other "democracy" and areal sharon is a conviced war criminal, muslim AND christans are killed and misstreated everyday by the israeli army, again the israeli people are not bad it's the leaders.

remember the way bush plans on going after saddam is just going to kill more civilians and bring more hate, look at afganastan, it's still a mess, everyday there are attacks on us soilders but the news brings nothing because then war on iraq will not go through.

yes saddam is bad, infact i think every arab and israeli leader needs to be changed but we need to find a better way then war, hopefully someday there will be a revolution in the region, then we can focus on the real issues like AIDS and world hunger.

think about it ???

[the_weggie_man]

46 .... get off the drugs man. Some day there will be a revolution  in the region? Explain this to me, please.  I must have missed the last 42 0r so revolutions over there!

[racer46]

a revolution is a GOOD change when the people come up and control, not a few rich families control, the last 42 or what ever are just stupid people taking over. would you call hitler coming in power being a revolution........no, yes he did good in raising germany from their depressson but that doesn't compare to what he did. our country can help or hurt the situation, i'm sure there is a way to get in there get rid of the fag and his "inner circle" and hold a election, yeah it sounds kiddish and will probably never happen like that but that would be the ideal way, and remember hate just brings more hate.

[Super Dave]

The area has been kind of messed up way before WW!.  Regardless, the rich families have always had power.  The region was a great center of knowledge, but things changed over time.  

Lots of posturing goes on.  It is just a way of business.  

Revolution?  I don't know.  That would require that the masses, or at least some with influence, educate each other that there should be a different way.  

There are places in the Arab world that teach Arab children how bad Americans and the United States are.  When that changes, the world might also be a better place.  

Any organization that has such a disregard for human life that it pays families when their family members marytr themselves by killing "infidels", innocent children and families...

Many of these organization claim to be following the will of Allah...  Any proper Muslim know's how improper that is.

Weapons inspectors don't look for that kind of stuff.  And how do you prepare against it?  

[racer46]

it would be nice to go on but the situation is waaay to complicated to try and type out, all i really want to say is i know arabs and they are very nice people, it's just they have be misstreated for so long some are starting to ruin it for all, and the muslim religon is not bad either, it just needs to be gone through by moderate people and be modernized, because alot of the parts had to do with life when the religon first formed and is not neccesary antmore. anyways lets all just try and be open minded before we make judgements, i'm not pointing any fingers, this is for everyone including me.

[Super Dave]

I agree.  The people are good honest people.  They wish to be respected.  However, the ones that are in power want things to be different.  They control the education and the power, the money and the flow.  The military forces ready to strike Saddam are there to strike against the military and the government of Iraq.  They are not there to take any oil (if we wanted, we could have done that many, many times already) or take over the country.  We could have done that in a lot of places too.  

Saddam is a threat to everyone and he needs to be taken care of.

[daisey]

great input people. all i want to say is i was there as a 19 yr old punk back in 92. now older and much wiser, my opinion has changed as has my overall view of the world since 911. are we to trust other
cultures? yes. do we have to believe in what they believe? no. should we go to war with Iraq? hmn?
until you are fired at or have played cards, ridden,
drank beer with someone who's entire anatomy is
nolonger attached, you can't understand ie., DEAD.
war sucks. period. people die. spl(sodem) >:( needs to be put somewhere, forever. these are not his people. they are the people of islamic faith, however,
they fear a dick tater more than Allah. this includes
his men of war. i'm mad now because two of my best bud's are off to fight for what is right. and we had plans to get them on the track this year :(
so lets end this thread and the hatred for a people
who are not responsible for the actions(orders) of
one sadistic maniac. don't worry we're gonna get him this time. he's done. hooyah!!!

[Super Dave]

Uh, don't forget the last one was in 1991...

I was in kind of a similar position, back then, but different.  I did not go because our National Guard unit was a combat unit, and obviously, the US Army had those.  Lots of Trans and Medical guys got called up.

Last time, we were part of a colation force to repel the aggressions of an invader.  I would have been improper in our context to have continued to Bahgdad unless the Arab community asked us to do it.  A friend of mine was in the 82nd Airborne Division.  He was sitting in the desert between Bahgdad and the Iraqi Army waiting to go in to get Saddam.  Every thing ended, they left.

This is different.  How much more of a threat do we need?  And what's up with the NATO people?  They won't help Turkey?  Great, so we shouldn't have helped Germany with the Iron Curtain problem?  What a joke!  It's times like these when you see who's your friend...and who isn't.  I for one am pretty impressed with the resolve of the Turkish govenment.  I didn't think they would allow us to work there.  Obviously, they can see the danger from outside their door.  

[racer46]

super_dave you make a good point but.........

we are saying that we are fighting for a democracy, in a democracy there should be different opinons, so i think it is ok for france, germany and belgium to to say no. antways they will be more greatly effected by the war than us. one they are much closer and it could spread, and two europeans already pay $4 per LITER of gas, that turns out to be about $10 per gallon, and with a war they may be a shortage of oil for some time, and they will suffer not us.

another thing is that after the gulf war which i think was only about one month long there were many incodents of vets coming back and being very violent, killing there wives, and we all know what timothy mcveah(sorry can't spell) did. and a high percent are still receving government aid because of being sick.

lets think logic, saddam KNOWS that we are coming to kill/dispose of him, so of course that means he will use any means to stay alive because he knows he is dying anyway, why not use the weapons? i'm not on saddam's side but he said he wants these weapons because israel has these same weapons and nobody inspects or cares that they do, he said he wants it for self defence. iraq has a HISTORY of killing inocent people israel kills incoent people AS WE SPEAK.