Idea: Smaller Regions?

Started by Dave_Alexander, January 31, 2003, 03:33:26 PM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Dave_Alexander

As I read through the many gripes and complaints in some of the recent threads it seems to me there's one recurring theme.  Too many events are too far away.  The current regions are geographically too large.  We all like diversity in the tracks we ride, but many of us simply can't afford so many long distance trips.

How many racers give up or drastically reduce their involvement when the number of long-distance events preclude them from having a shot at a class championship?  How many decide they might as well just run the local events only?  If the season were more centric to a smaller geographical area with only a couple distant events would we actually have more racers turn out?  Could smaller regions produce enough additional racers to cover the expenses?

I know race tracks aren't as common as gas stations so we have to make some concessions with regard to where we race.  I'm not that familiar with the locations of the Eastern tracks so let me focus on the left coast for a moment...

Here in Phoenix we now have several tracks to choose from.  Firebird has three separate tracks.  I'm not sure if the West track is suitable because I've never run it myself and only saw CCS race there once.  We also have PIR, though there may be some safety concerns there.  A third option is the new Arizona Motorsports Complex.  Let's say our season consisted of three events at Firebird East, one at Firebird Main, two or three at AMC, one at Vegas, and one at Streets of Willow Springs.  With a schedule like that I'd be attending every race.  As it is now, I'll probably only attend the four in-town events this season.  CCS is losing my attendance for six out-of-town events because I simply can't afford that many.  If there were only two or three I'd probably go.

How about the Pacific region?  What if they made separate Northern and Southern California regions?  The Southern Region could run two or three events each at Buttonwillow, Streets of Willow, and California Raceway.  Toss in a single Vegas event and perhaps a combined Laguna Seca event and you've got a nice season.  And by the way, why doesn't CCS make use of Willow Springs big track too?  That'd be four different tracks in close proximity to the LA area.

In Northern California they've got Thunderhill, Sears, Laguna, and perhaps some others I don't know about. (Where do all the AFM'ers race?)  Perhaps Sears and Laguna might be difficult to schedule or expensive, I don't know.  NorCal region may or may not want to toss in a single Vegas and/or Willow Springs event for variety.

In my opinion, smaller regions make it a lot easier and more cost effective to race.  Running more events may cost more overall, but hopefully attendance will improve to make up for it.  Dropping the number of events per region could also help that a lot.  I know CCS would get more money out of me and some of my friends with this kind of plan.

Thoughts and opinions?

Gixxer124

#1
I agree. Its seems CCS could run just as many races, change the listed region and save everybody a lot of traveling. I race in the Great Plains region. There are races at Gingerman (Mich.) and Barber (Al.) 11 to 14 hours from me. They have a couple events scheduled in between these at Blackhawk. 8 hours away. It would make more sense to have those as Great Plains races. Also, why are there so many more Midwest races? 13 for MW, 9 for Great Plains. Not fair when the Race of Champions rolls around. ???

Protein Filled

IMO, I believe the reason they have more Mid-west races comes down to the fact that the mid-west championship races (or when they were combined with other regions) drew a larger number of race entries. Now, this is my speculation, but I heard of a few Gateway weekends were the other regions drew a thin crowd. Maybe it was the racetrack though. I am not sure why, but it seemed like more riders were following the midwest championship, so naturally if you are ccs you would have more races to make more money  ;D

One thing though, smaller regions would also mean smaller grids, which means less chance of qualifying for contingency since someone like Michelin wants 10 riders on the track to pay. I also think that one cool thing is that you can race in many different racetracks and learn quite a lot by doing that. On another thread, comeone mentioned that 13 races was good for them because they could miss a couple and still have a shot. I guess it's one of those things were it's hard to make everyone happy...
Edgar Dorn #81 - Numbskullz Racing, Mason Racin Tires, Michelin, Lithium Motorsports



Don't give up on your dreams! If an illiterate like K3 can write a book, imagine what you can do!

FullMoonRacing

Who's got any anxiety about the potential for administrative nightmares as a result of moving to smaller regions?

GSXR RACER MIKE

     KC124; The comparison you made concerning the amount of races run in the M/W as to the number run in the G/P region has nothing to do with the Race Of Champions. The grid positions at the R.O.C. are determined by what place in your regions standings you are in as of a certain date. For example if you are winning the HW Sportbike class in your region, and you are the first one to submit your entry to CCS for the ROC, then you will have pole position at the ROC for that class. If you are the last one to pre-enter for the ROC (and the entry was recieved before the cut-off date) then you will be gridded as the last 1st place entry in HW Sportbike. To clarify this further, there are 10 CCS regions in the US, therefore there could be 10 1st place HW Sportbike racers at the ROC (though this is not usually the case due to some racers not attending and/or someone holding the same 1st place position in a particular class in multiple regions - such as in the M/W, G/P, & G/L regions). In the case of 10 1st place racers attending and you entering last you would be gridded 10th on the grid (at Daytona this would be the 3rd row, 2nd position to the right, from the left side). After gridding all the 1st place riders they use the same process for gridding all the 2nd place riders and so on. They use this process all the way thru till either the grid is full or all the pre-entered riders are gridded. After this, if any positions are still available on the grid, they start adding any riders who entered races at the gate (riders who didn't pre-enter or decided to add classes). This is done in the order in which entries are recieved at the gate, no matter what your finishing position in your local region (and costs more $ also).
     So even if your region had 3 events for the whole season and mine had 30, you still would have the potential to have pole position at the ROC (as long as you were first to get your entry in!).
Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
MODERATOR

Super Dave

I guess, the question is, where is the "center" of the region.  It's kind of hard to be at the epicenter.  Great Plains region  center is Gateway. I believe.  So, the race tracks are "reasonably" close.

Laguna?  AFM doesn't race there.  Only the AMA.  Lot's of sound ordinances there.  On track days there, riders MUST have stock exhaust.

Now, making smaller regions...  There are "track championships" now.  And at least you can say that there is a pay back in winning one as you will get free entries.  Win the number one plate...and you get a number one plate.  No cash reward on that one.

It does take a certain number of racers just to pay for the event.  More smaller regions just might leave everything fragmented.

However, I think there could be a better format, although some disagree with me.  First, I think the overall championship thing is stupid.  Who's got the endurance in the cash pocket?  Run as many races as possible, pay for the tires, etc.  That's who wins.  Yes, some riders do well in the results, but it would be a better race to the championship if more felt they had any kind of chance.  In 1993 when I got my number one plate, I had double the points of the second place guy.  I won lots of races, and I even skipped the last event.  I did well, but would it have been different if I had more people doing the exact same thing as me?  Sure!

Limit a championship to five or six classes that a rider enters.  Average number of entries for a rider at a CCS event is around four.  If I thought that I had some kind of chance for a top ten plate, I might be inclined to enter a couple more races.

Make an even better struggle for the championship by allowing a rider to drop a couple of their worst finishes.  So, let's say there are 13 events, drop the worst two, or you wouldn't have to show up.  Or you could go to all 13 to try and improve your tally.  

There are lots of good options...  But they are not being explored by this organization.
Super Dave

GSXR RACER MIKE

     This smaller region issue is somewhat of a double-edged sword. It's true that more local races may bring more local racers, but what is local? There currently are 10 CCS regions in the US, of which I belong to the Midwest region. I live very near BHF and have no real extra expenses to race there (beyond actual racing expenses). The furthest track from me in the M/W region (this season) is MAM, which is approximately 6 hours away. My intent will be to work my normal 12 hour day Saturday, drive to MAM, sleep for 6 hours, race between 4-6 classes Sunday, drive back, sleep for 4 hours, then work for 12 hours again - all without having to miss any work. The other tracks are within 2 1/2 to 5 hours from where I live. For me, this years schedule couldn't be too much better. The 1 optional event for me that will require extra days off is also the Barber (Al.) event which is about 12 1/2 hours away from me.
     I think that the regional bonderies are somewhat a matter of luck for any one particular racer. I see how it can be tough luck if you live toward a regional boundary and the expenses associated with the extra travel and days off. A few years ago I was faced with a lot of travel cost as well, but I did it and really enjoyed the added variety of different tracks to race at (though I am still trying to pay-off that season). I don't think more regions would be overall beneficial in the sense that there would be less competitors to help offset the already costly expenses involved in our sport. Though you may end up paying less in travel, you probably would pay quite a bit more in race fees.
Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
MODERATOR

Super Dave

Mike, I think you put it about right.

I guess if you were to have more regions, you would probably have fewer races in each smaller region.  If you were to try and have more, you probably couldn't schedule it. Afterall, race tracks want to have business going on all the time, not just motorcycle weekends.

I do struggle with the number of races in the Midwest schedule.  Thirteen events, a couple of double points weekends.  That's a lot of money.

I mean, honestly, the AMA schedule has ten weekends on it.  I don't think we had more than eight or nine in 1993 when I did the full AMA series.  FUSA is in the same boat.  They have less than eight.

Personally, I'd like to have a nine to ten race series with the opportunity to do races with other regions, etc.  That would allow everyone a more safe and reasonably equal program.  

Right, racing isn't about being equal, sure, but it should be reasonable for a good number of riders to attempt to chase the championship.  
Super Dave

Gixxer124

My point was not to change the events but to change what regions were included. I'm sorry, as much as I would like to race Barber, it should'nt be a Great Plains track. Southeast maybe. Last year I traveled from Michigan to Oklahoma. What kind of region is that? Hallett, Mid America, Topeka, Putnam, and Gateway. That looks like a Great Plains schedule to me. Just my opinion. :-/

sdiver68

Sorry, KC, I love Barber being on the GP schedule.  1 weekend to travel to an exceptional track is not asking too much, imo.  :P

Gingerman?   :-/

If you just stop worrying about chasing a Championship, then you don't have to worry about traveling too much.  KC, CRA races at MAM a few times, why don't you just do some more of those?

If you ARE worried about a Championship, then be prepared to sacrifice time and $$.  It's no different from any other sport in the world, those with the highest commitment obtain the highest rewards.

Having said that, I might support some type of race limiting system.  Say, of 13 events you get to throw out your worst 3 results.  Potential problem with that is people would take advantage to skip a track they know they don't do as well at or know very well.  
MCRA Race School Instructor

Gixxer124

Not going for a championship. :P  I plan on hitting the CCS and CRA races at MAM, all the Gateway events and possibly 1 at Hallett or Blackhawk. Expert Formula 40 Championship? Maybe next year. ;D

raptorduck952

My perspective is a little different. I am focusing on CCS over AFM primarily because CCS runs on more tracks. I actually like that some races are in other states. Granted, I will have a long drive from the SF Bay Area to Arizona or Vegas, but the reward is the variety for me. Of course I could change my tune after driving thousand of miles this season. I drove 700 roundtrip for the Willow event this weekend and Arizona is next. If CCS broke the regions up more, I would probably compete in both the southern and nothern Pacific Regions.