TZ250 in MW Sportsman

Started by motomadness, January 28, 2003, 06:20:50 PM

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motomadness

Reading the rules and partially because of the notes highlighted in the LW Sportsman class, one might think that a TZ250 would be allowed in MW Sportsman.  I know it's not a production, street-based motorcycle, yet the rules don't explicitly exclude it as other classes have.

What's the deal?

TZDeSioux

Sean,
the fact that a TZ is not a production street bike no where in the world makes it illegal for that class. How's your TZ search going?

motomadness

I picked up Doc Stein's bike last weekend.  He had a ton of spares, good notes and he will probably be at the track to offer assistance when I need it.  Can't beat that.

I am still trying to sell the Aprilia, but I am not too concerned.

TZDeSioux

Congratulations! You're going to love it! It's a 95 right? What is he going to ride?

spyderchick

The last I heard Doc is planning on running the 600 classes this year. I might be wrong though.
Alexa Krueger
Spyder Leatherworks
414.327.0967
www.spyderleatherworks.com
www.redflagfund.org
Do or do not, there is no "try".

TZDeSioux

QuoteThe last I heard Doc is planning on running the 600 classes this year. I might be wrong though.

ooh.. that would suck if he did. We need more twostroke geeks in our region :)

motomadness

It's a '95.  I am busy at work all this week, so I haven't had anytime to really look it over and mess around with it.

Doc is really cool.  I spent almost 3 hours talking to him about every spare part he had.  That conversation really instilled a lot confidence in the purchase I was making and the assistance I would be getting while trying to maintain the bike.

Doc told me he plans on running an SV and a 600.  He want to cover all of the bases for obtaining the #1 plate.  I wish him luck.

TZDeSioux

Sean,
sounds like you got what you wanted. Now get ready to get your ass beat by the little bike. It aint like riding that lazy boy sofa of an Aprilia RS250 :)

motomadness

If that's what it takes to get into the 17's or lower at BHF, then so be it.  Bring on the terror.  

Any word on your bike?  

What color are you going to paint it?  I can't stand the white wheels on my bike.  I am thinking about getting them powder coated black or red.  If we go in together, we can probably get a discount.

Eric Kelcher

Here is a racer that does powder coating very high quality stuff, unsure on prices. TopKoat.com
Eric Kelcher
ASRA/CCS Director of Competition

TZDeSioux

Sean,
Yamaha released the 03 TZ a month later than usual this year. It should leave Japan either this week or next week. I'm pretty sure that my bike is coming with black marchesinis. I'll probably keep the bike just plain white for a while.

How's your bike? Give me some details man! Is it stock? Does it have the sealed airboxes with the fuel pump? Who built the motor? Any kit parts? I'm excited for you!

chris_chops

#11
Hey Desu,
   My bike is red and I actually possess it, unlike your sorry butt!  I hope the moritorium on trash talk is lifted soon, I miss it!  PUNK!!!!!!
Matt
P.s. 550 posts, I thought I was bored?

motomadness

BK,
Don't have many details to share right now.  The motor is stock.  Have plenty of extra bites to change internal gearing.  No kit parts/sealed airbox.  Everything look like it's in the right place.  This weekend I hope to get into it.  Know of any good stuff I can do with it?

tzracer

For now I would leave it as is. TZs are much easier to mess up than improve. I have raced against that bike many times, it is plenty fast for a beginner TZ rider.

I would set it up at the stock settings, get to know the bike, then try some things. As one tuner told me, give your bike what it wants, not all TZs want the same thing. Example, just because one person runs staggered jetting doesn't mean they all need staggered jetting (even if they are the same model year).

If you have any questions feel free to ask.
Brian McLaughlin
http://www.redflagfund.org
Donate at http://www.donate.redflagfund.org
 
2 strokes smoke, 4 strokes choke

TZDeSioux

Sean..
well the good thing about your bike is that you don't have to worry about the freaking battery all the time since you don't have a fuel pump to power. I'm sure he's got a ton of notes for all the local tracks so you should pretty much be set to ride it without wasting much time finding a good baseline of any sort. Did the 95 come with the 5 spoke marchesinis or did it come with the 3 spoke deals? Your bike will be alot like Paul's stock 96 so you'll be able to use him as a reference on how well your bike pulls down the front straight or out of corners etc... Just take care of your consumable parts so there's no avoidable headaches during your first year on the bike. Let me know if you need help with anything.

tzracer

The 95s came with the 3 spoke aluminum wheels. ISTR that 96 was the first year of magnesium wheels. Magnesium wheels are nice, but they need to be x-rayed to check their condition.

Cornering speed is the key to a 250. I have seen riders on relatively slow bikes do well because they did not slow down as much as other riders. So don't get all caught up in trying to make the most power.

When I bought mine, I purchased it new. The first thing I did was send the engine out to get set up. It was not really modified much from stock (mostly cleaned up). The cylinders came marked for the correct base gasket and all the heads were set up to work an any cylinder. The carbs were cleaned up and I recieved jetting and timing information. I have never had to fool around much with the engine, I have won races, regional championships and finished 2nd at the ROC (1994). The company I sent it to no longer exists (RossBaron) but the owner of Swedetech (Reine) worked at RossBaron and is capable of doing similar work.

If you want more detailed info on the maintenance I do, let me know. Also set up sheets and notes are very important. Note that Doc tended to jet on the rich side.
Brian McLaughlin
http://www.redflagfund.org
Donate at http://www.donate.redflagfund.org
 
2 strokes smoke, 4 strokes choke

TZDeSioux

Brian..
so you must have raced with Jeff Voss and Ken Kono back in the days eh? Did you race much last year? Don't recall seeing any other TZ's out there besides the guys I know.

When I get my bike.. the first thing I'll do is send out the forks to get revalved and have correct rate spring on the rear. I'll also split the cases and clean it up and match the cylinders to the cases. Other than that.. I'm going to leave it alone. Probably advance the timing a few and play with the squish to set it up for VP C12.

tzracer

Crashed my RC51 early in the year. A concussion kept me off my bike for 2 months. Rode the TZ at 2 Blackhawk races. Got my TZ (started life as a 93) in 1994. Been debating about getting a new(er) one. For club racing I am not really thrilled with pressurized airboxes. My wife says my current air boxes are enough of a pain to work with, wouldn't want to piss her off too much. Then I would have to work on the bike at the track.

Check the carbs, they may be better today, the ones that came on the 93 were modified (by Yamaha) to use a differnt slide. An aluminum plug was inserted where the slide goes so a smaller slide would fit. It matched very poorly to the carb bore. So in cleaning it up, the carb bores were smoothed their entire length.

Your approach sounds like the correct way to go. My cases have grinding marks from cleaning up casting marks. The reed cages were cleaned up as was the inside of the rubber intakes.

I plan on racing my TZ at the warmer Blackhawk events and RA. Stop by the Learning Curves pit area.
Brian McLaughlin
http://www.redflagfund.org
Donate at http://www.donate.redflagfund.org
 
2 strokes smoke, 4 strokes choke

motomadness

Thanks for all of the assistance guys, but it is only accomplishing one thing.  It's making my DAMN racing agony grow.  Why can't it be April already.

Thanks again.

TZDeSioux

QuoteThanks for all of the assistance guys, but it is only accomplishing one thing.  It's making my DAMN racing agony grow.  Why can't it be April already.

Thanks again.

Rebuild your motor while waiting for April to roll around.  :P

motomadness

Wanna help me do it?  Especially since you will probably helping me wrench on it throughout the season anyway.

Let's start on Saturdays after the banquet.  Although I barely want to touch it until I get it on the track.

TZDeSioux

QuoteWanna help me do it?  Especially since you will probably helping me wrench on it throughout the season anyway.

Let's start on Saturdays after the banquet.  Although I barely want to touch it until I get it on the track.

Do you have new top ends and a new crank? Did he tell you exactly how many miles are on the crank? Make sure you have new oil seals for the crank. The dry magneto side and the wet primary side. A leaky crankcase is a sure way to seize it.

motomadness

I don't have a new crank.  Doc thinks I can get an entire season off of the crank that's installed in the motor.  The spare crank (an RS rebuild) supposedly has good life still left on it.

We can take it apart, but from what Doc says, it's ready to run.

TZDeSioux

QuoteI don't have a new crank.  Doc thinks I can get an entire season off of the crank that's installed in the motor.  The spare crank (an RS rebuild) supposedly has good life still left on it.

We can take it apart, but from what Doc says, it's ready to run.

you can always measure the runouts on the crank but what fails on the crank are bearings.. they only last so long. If I was you.. I'd get one of them completely rebuilt and trued and run it all year. Just remember.. when a crank goes... it has a tendancy to tear up the cases which cost $1,700 if you can even find one. Do yourself a favor and take the motor apart and atleast clean and rebuild it.

TZDeSioux

By the way.. what's with the "monsta"? bhwahaha ;D

motomadness

Monsta describes my attitude at times.  Kind of wild, kind of serious, always hungry.  Carry over from my frat days.  Do you like it?

Thanks for being so interesting in aiding me with the new bike.  I will take your advise.

I think I will inquire more about the present state of the motor before I send anything off to get work done on the crank.  I will however, take the crank out and perform some baselining measurements, so I at least know where I am at before I start running the motor.  What kinds of tools do I need?  Just a feeler gauge?  

Should I just trailer the bike up to your place so we can get started?  If so, when is good for you?

Protein Filled

Sean, what did you do with the SV? Do you still have it?
Edgar Dorn #81 - Numbskullz Racing, Mason Racin Tires, Michelin, Lithium Motorsports



Don't give up on your dreams! If an illiterate like K3 can write a book, imagine what you can do!

motomadness

THe SV was never mine.  It was Acapelo's.  Once he passed away, I didn't try to claim/buy it from his widow.  She still has it and is looking for someone to sell it.  Interested?

Afterwards I thought about fixing up the Aprilia, but I didn't think it would be a suitable option for where I would like to build to.  So I put it up for sale, and started looking for a used TZ.  Doc Stein was selling his, I checked it, and bought it.  Now I can't wait to ride it.

Protein Filled

Hmm, I don't think I could afford another fully built SV.

The TZ is a great bike to ride. They go through corners so easily and are so awesome in transitions from left to right, but you will have to get used to having absolutely no engine braking. I am sure the Aprilia did not have much so it may not be that much of a change for you.

They are real easy to work on once you know what to do, but the one thing is that a mistake can really cost you a lot. You will need a few specialty tools to make sure you don't grenade it. A leak down tester is a must if you ask me.

Edgar Dorn #81 - Numbskullz Racing, Mason Racin Tires, Michelin, Lithium Motorsports



Don't give up on your dreams! If an illiterate like K3 can write a book, imagine what you can do!

TZDeSioux

#29
Edgar is right.. get a pressure tester. I have one.. and I use it all the time. The last thing you want is your crank seals leaking and sucking in hot air and/or trans oil. Also note that TZ's are notorious for leaking from the bottom Reed cage and carb boot. You will seize your motor if your magneto side or intake leaks. You should also get an ignition timing gauge. Once you split the cases, you will have to reset the ignition timing and that's a super pain in the ass without a proper dial gauge. You will also need a magneto puller unless you're he-man. Did Doc give you any tools? I hope Doc gave you a manual and parts book?

motomadness

Edgar/Brain  Thanks for the advise.

Doc gave me a timing gauge and an relative air density meter.  That's all of the specialty tools I've got.

Brian,
Do you have a magneto puller I can borrow?  What about a case spliter?

Edgar,
I think Acapelo's widow is only asking $5,000.

TZDeSioux

Yeah I have one you can borrow. You don't need a case splitter. All you have to do is undo all the bolts and tap it very lightly with a mallet and it will come apart. I've never used a case splitter to do the job.

motomadness

Thanks Brian.  BTW, I did get the manuals from DOC as well, so I guess I'll be alright as long as I have the right tools.