Newbie ride - RS125 vs SV650

[vanillagorrilla]

Maybe you guys can offer me some insight into this:  After 3 years of racing minis (CR85) I'm ready to move up, and like most everyone else, cost is an issue.  I would not be buying new tires every race, running super expensive race fuel, etc.  I know I won't win anything that way, but thats not the point for me.  I'm there for the personal challenge and experience.  I Just want to get on some bigger tracks and step it up a little. 

So which is the cheapest and/or best package?  I have seen fully race prepped SV's go for $3000, and RS125's seem to range from 2000 for pre '94 models to almost 10,000 for new ones.  I have plently of two stroke experience, so hopefully tuning isn't TOO much of an issue. 

Which class would be cheapest to run over the course of a season?

Which class would be better for someone with race experience, but not at this level?

Any other thoughts?  Is there another bike I should be looking at?

[kvanengen]

You should get in touch with Brian Mc. (tzracer). He has raced both a sv and a TZ so he should be a good help.

[catman]

Hey VG! great name! I'm still a little new with about 60 races under my belt -with the sv you are "allowed" in quite a few classes but unless you have a few extra ponies,the ( Lightweight Super sport) will be the only class where you are better matched mechanically ( due to some health issues i've been a part timer the last 3 yrs- working hard to race more but my point would be that to be allowed on the track more,and accumulate laps,get a SV- if you want to work more go rs125 I'm just too plain Big i think but they are an exciting ride i'm told,cant run in near as many classes maybe,.Either way , get out your credit card,get the limits raised,(every 6 mos )  order/read  the book "HIGHSIDE" from chrisonwiler.com his nickname is K3 here,its a great place to be for us and he has helped me alot including locating very capable machinery (my SV current)- Many other great helpful folk here too !!!Your gonna love it-Good luck in your decision-i guess if yourr'e small/lite love 2 strokes/labors of love,rs125 on it!

[catman]

OH -VG-in answer to cost question previously mentiond Brian will answer that in his terms, i think the cost of the 125 might have a variable of your own mechanic worthiness ,as long as you dont have to buy many cylinders-and hit spot on the fuel/air mixing,i would think cost could be liveable with- John

[tzracer]

125s are cheaper to run than an SV (properly cared for - engine gone through at least once per season). I think the 125s are more fun. It may take a while to get up to speed on a 125.

Try http://www.usgpru.net/ for more info.

RS125 buy 96 or newer.
TZ125 buy 97 or newer.
Crash spares, spare wheels, and spare engine parts - cranks, cylinders, heads are things to look for - these parts can be expensive.

Jetting is not horribly critical at club races. I have seen fast riders who hardly ever do any jetting.

Working on them is very easy, if you have ever rebuilt a 2 stroke dirtbike, you can rebuild a 125. Ask the 4 stroke guys how many of them do all their own labor on engine rebuilds, including cutting valve seats.

I race in 3 or 4 classes per weekend (125GP, LWGP, GTL and LW40), plus you can race at USGPRU events.

[vanillagorrilla]

See that's kinda what I was getting after:  I am comfortable with most any 2 stroke single maintanence, but I am lazy with jetting.  Truthfully I hate it.  I typically set my stuff on the rich/safe side and just run with it.

I'm not exactly rs125 sized (220 w/o gear) but hell, I've been racing minis for the past 4 years and had a blast.  RS125 wouldnt be any dif to me.  I was all set for the SV but then I couldn't shake the feeling that come time for a rebuild, I'd be shipping it out somewhere.  Valves, cam chains, etc...  you know.....

Still, I've heard rumors that 125gp bikes require rings after every other race and cranks mid-season.  Is this fact?  Can a guy with mid-pack aspirations run on pump gas (not with the leaded head models, I know) or cheap race fuel and get 4 races out of the same pair of slicks?  Should I just sell out and run the SV or what?  Help me.....

[benprobst]

most of the 125 guys I know, find a decent setting with the jets and basically leave it alone. two strokes are snobby, they are fast not comfortable and fast. they were simply built to race, tires will be slightly cheaper, proper maintenence when compared will be equall or cheaper. But in the end I say go with the SV  they are fun bikes easy to ride and very forgiving, never ridin a 125 so I dont know alot about there character but I would guess they arent as friendly as a sv, and the sv will be much easier to ride at 220lbs than a 125.

[clutch]

I am going to have a 2003 SS SV for sale shortly with a fresh motor, all SS legal, nothing special.  the bike has 5 championships over the last 2 years.  Its a turn key and go on race track SV.  PM me if youre interested.

[Super Dave]

Big guys on 125's.

One of my instructors raced a 125 and he was able to win races.  He weighed 200# or so.

They are tiny race bikes that are built to be worked on, so they don't present some of the space challenges that street bikes have.

Having raced quite a few bikes, 125's are one of my favorites.

[tzracer]

I have seen some pretty big guys ride fast on 125s.

As far as maintenance, I go 300 miles on a piston and ring, can push to about 400 but the ring land is closing up by then. Cranks about 1200 miles. Like I said, the work is no more difficult than a 2 stroke dirtbike. Top end about $70, crank is about $400 new. I have a TZ. Cranks can be rebuilt for about $300 or so. Honda cranks cannot be rebuilt, but they are cheaper. If you are interested, go to the USGPRU web site and ask any questions you have.

125s are far more fun to ride than an SV. An SV is a street bike, a 125 (or a 250 - I have both) is a real race bike. Unlike an SV you do not have horsepower to mask your mistakes. I would not call them unforgiving, they really don't do anything strange, on the contrary, they are probably harder to set up badly than an SV. They are more difficult to extract the full potential of the bike. Riding a 125 is the most fun I have ever had riding a motorcycle. On a GP bike the rider is the limiting factor, not the bike.

[jarelj]

One big advantage of the SV is that if you have a problem with your bike and/or need a spare, there will be 20 people in the paddock you can hit up for advice/parts.  If you want something different, think about a Kawasaki Ninja 650R.  I raced one all year, and it's a better race bike than the SV, there just aren't as many people on them and not as many hop-up parts available.  Give it another year, and I believe you'll see a bunch of them on the grid, they honestly handle better than the SV.  I raced an SV all last year, and the Ninja this year, and the Ninja was the hands-down winner for best bike.  Everyone else who rode my Ninja, including Doug Polen, was very impressed with it.  Then I sold it so I can concentrate on racing my Ducati next year..... we'll see if that was THE stupidest thing I've ever done, or just ONE OF the stupidest things I've ever done..... 

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

I've got a buddy who just switched to 2-strokes from a career racing mostly 750cc bikes.  He's having the time of his life, and trying to convince me that I need one!  The guy has some very well set up GSXRs, and now that he's bought a 125 he doesn't much care to ride them.  I actually find it all kinda scary and cult-like....