Diesel VS Gas

Started by wolf44, November 05, 2006, 09:05:36 PM

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What do you pull your trailer to the track with

Diesel
20 (66.7%)
Gas
10 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 29

wolf44

Ok what do you guys pull with diesel or gas
I'm working on a project and need to know what the ratio is for d vs g as far as pulling trailers to the track
Quote from: benprobst on July 28, 2008, 11:24:05 PM
Huh, guess I was wrong,
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Jason748

I use my trusty, rare 95' Chevy K1500 with a 6.5 TD, if I could afford a new duramax I would go with that, but this damn racing addiction.....
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extrakt0r

#2
2006 Duramax...If you do get a Diesel get a pre 2007 Model...Going to have a ton less emission crap and EPA stuff to have to rip off later...

Mine will smoke any PowerJoke and Cummins I have come across so far...And that is with the Bullydog on only Level 2...The 6 speed Allison Tranny is rock solid...Crusing on the highway at 75 the tach is at about 2K...

Get's about 18MPG Empty and 12 Pulling at a even 65-70, and about 9 when I kick it up to 80 on the way home from RA pulling the 43' Hauler...

Mike Simone
CCS/ASRA Great Plains EX #619
www.teamsimoneracing.com

2005 CCS AM Unlimited GP Champion
2005 CCS AM Unlimited SuperBike Champion
2005 CCS AM Unlimited SuperSport Champion

GSXR RACER MIKE

Alot more info than you asked for, but what the hell! Also, all my trucks were completely stock.

I have 2 Diesel trucks, a 2002 F-250 4X4 Superduty Crewcab shortbed Pick-up with the 7.3 Powerstroke and 4 speed automatic transmission with overdrive, the other is a 2003 F-350 4X4 (FX4 option) Superduty Crewcab longbed Dually Pick-up with the 6.0 Powerstroke and 5 speed transmission with Tow/Haul mode and overdrive.

I have pulled my current trailer (26 foot V-nose enclosed car hauler that weighs 4400 lbs empty) with 4 different vehicles, the above 2 and also a 1994 GMC 2-door 1/2 ton Yukon 4X4 with a 350 gas engine and overdriven 4 speed automatic transmission, the other vehicle was a 1995 GMC 3/4 ton Suburban 4X4 with a 454 gas engine and overdriven 4 speed automatic transmision.

The 2-door 1/2 ton Yukon was a joke to try and pull this trailer with, way too short of a wheel base and not nearly enough weight capacity to hold the trailers weight. Due to the short wheelbase of the truck and weight of the trailer it would influence the control of the truck ALOT! luckily I never intended to use this truck to pull it, I just tested to see what it was like. The other issue here was that the engine and trans were really working hard to pull this trailer.

The Suburban was alot better because it was a 3/4 ton and the wheel base was quite a bit longer which stabilized towing quite a bit by providing more leverage against the trailer, but I was suprised at how much the back of the truck dropped down when attaching my trailer. The engine and trans did OK, but they were definately working hard, I was LUCKY to get 8 mpg at Interstate speeds. Another issue was that the trailer would get to bouncing up and down over dips and bumps. The biggest thing I remember about using that truck was how often it would shift in and out of Overdrive when encountering even small hills on the Interstate and how much speed it would lose while going up hills, accelerating up a hill was not even a possibility - this was very frustrating to not only me but others around me trying to hold a speed with cruise control.

The 2002 F-250 was like night and day after using the Suburban for several years, that truck barely squats down with the trailer attached and pulls great (minimal bouncing). Holding Interstate speed up hills is a fact with that Diesel (on all but the steepest hills) and I could actually accelerate up them if needing to pass someone, shifting out of Overdrive is rare on that truck. This is by far the most dependable vehicle I have ever owned (and this is coming from a former die hard GM owner), I have NEVER had an issue with this truck EVER and it has 135,000 on it now. Generally I would get 11 to 12 MPG going 70 to 75 MPH with that trailer loaded for a total weight around 6,500 lbs, the biggest factors in that being the number of hills and if there is a head wind or not.

The 2003 F-350 is by far the WORST vehicle I have EVER owned in my entire life! This vehicle has had a whole host of problems, almost all of them electrical and none related to each other. I have been stranded by this truck twice while towing due to problems (failed U-Joint at 38,000 miles when alone and 800 miles from home at midnight in the middle of Georgia, then another time loss of all lights due to the fuse box shorting out!). I will say that when this truck does work it's crazy fast and the long wheelbase and dual rear tires give great towing stability on the interstate and the truck doesn't bounce up and down like the lighter duty trucks - the tow/haul mode is also a great feature, especially for engine braking down mountain type hills. But the FX4 option on this truck is known for being an extremely harsh ride, and believe me it is when on a road with any bumps or pavement seams. The other big downfall is the lack of a turning radius on this truck, trying to park in a parking lot without a trailer can be a real challenge at times, especially with the wide ass end on it. They changed the front suspension in 2005 to coil springs so as to provide a tighter turning radius and supposed better ride, but I have yet to drive one. Another wild negative about this truck is the filters (oil, gas/water seperator, and air), Ford went with some extremely different designs for all of these from what they had in the past, if you purchased all those filters from Ford it would cost you nearly $250!!! Take the truck to Ford for an oil change and it's going to cost you $90, the air filter alone is $105 if you want or need that changed!
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Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
MODERATOR

benprobst

Plain in simple the diesel will be cooler, work better, and most likely will last longer. However, when it comes down to pure dollars, if you get equal quality trucks one with a diesel and one with a gas burner, the amount of miles you will have to put on to pay not only for the difference in purchase price, but also generally higher fuel prices will be alot. So basically the diesel by far a superior towing vehicle, but economically it rarely wins.

P.S. if you buy a truck with no spark plugs go with the cummins or the 7.3 ford. The chevy and what not are nice, but the cummins is the simply the best motor out there and the 7.3 will last until the truck falls apart.
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251am

Quote from: benprobst on November 06, 2006, 12:46:44 AM
P.S. if you buy a truck with no spark plugs go with the cummins or the 7.3 ford. The chevy and what not are nice, but the cummins is the simply the best motor out there and the 7.3 will last until the truck falls apart.

+1  '99 Powerstroke we have is actually an International motor-tons of support.

What's the project your workin on?

extrakt0r

Quote from: benprobst on November 06, 2006, 12:46:44 AM

P.S. if you buy a truck with no spark plugs go with the cummins or the 7.3 ford. The chevy and what not are nice, but the cummins is the simply the best motor out there and the 7.3 will last until the truck falls apart.

The Cummins motor is nice, but the Tranny that Dodge hooked it to is a joke...If you must get a Ford, I agree the 7.3 is a nice motor, but do not get the 6.0 PSD... They are always blowing up...
Mike Simone
CCS/ASRA Great Plains EX #619
www.teamsimoneracing.com

2005 CCS AM Unlimited GP Champion
2005 CCS AM Unlimited SuperBike Champion
2005 CCS AM Unlimited SuperSport Champion

Jeff

Duramax in the 5500 Kodiak chassis hauling the RV and trailer.  It's absolutely SICK that this is the same motor that they put in trucks.  I'm about 22,000lbs when loaded & wet, and I have no lack of power.  Still right in at 10mpg.

93 chevy 3500 pimp van.  Not sure how many miles are on it as the odometer died at 236,000 miles about a year ago.  Thing runs great.  Naturally aspirated, so it has NO power, but it's stable and cheap.  Get 20+ mpg on the hwy at 65, and it is SOLID while towing (just takes me a while to get up to speed).

05 Jeep Liberty CRD.  Fun vehicle, mileage is 40% improved over their gas motor in the same vehicle, but I'm still under 30mpg (disappointing).  21 in town, 26 on the hwy..  New torque converter goes in this week with a few other misc bits as the original ones they built for the CRD were problematic.

And last but not least, I can't discount the onan diesel generator in the RV.  2cyl diesel which runs forever on little fuel.  (unloaded is like .2 gal/hr.  Fully loaded = .9 gal/hr.  Avg under .4 gal/hr).  800 hours on it right now, which is more hours than most people put on and RV generator in a lifetime.  I guess that's why they have such problems (low usage)...
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wolf44

Quote from: 251am on November 06, 2006, 06:11:19 AM
+1  '99 Powerstroke we have is actually an International motor-tons of support.

What's the project your workin on?
I'll let you know when I get done with it.   ;)
Quote from: benprobst on July 28, 2008, 11:24:05 PM
Huh, guess I was wrong,
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Super Dave

'96 Ford short bus.  7.3  Power Stoke, but van Power Strokes are detuned.  Old school E4OD trans. Bus weighs over 9000# unloaded.  Pulls my big trailer at around 12 MPG, best at 15, worst 10.

Using a gas van, I was around 6MPG with the best being 8.5.

Diesel would have to be 50% more expensive than gas for me to even start considering a gas motor again.  Probably more because under heavy towing load, it seems like you eat up coils, plugs, and all which just adds to the cost of operation.

I recycle all my engine oils (bikes, cars, and bus) back into the diesel tank for fuel.
Super Dave

Jeff

Quote from: Super Dave on November 06, 2006, 09:23:13 AM
I recycle all my engine oils (bikes, cars, and bus) back into the diesel tank for fuel.

Should have let me know.  I just spent 30 minutes dumping out 45 gal of collected drain oil at my fire dept...

I did get funny looks though while dumping all those VP cans which I use to store drain oil throughout the year.
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APP_Racing

'99 F350 Diesel, single axle.  Loads of Power fun to drive and pulls like crazy.  Mileage is my biggest issue.  8 mpg pulling my #6600 trailer, wind is an enemy as it can really wreck havoc on your speed and mileage.  Its lifted 4", banks exhaust, Garrett Turbo, Banks downpipe, Bully Dog 6 position.  Any 7.3 Powerstroke is the way to go if you buy Ford, 6.0 models, have heard nothing but trouble (but I don't own one).  Dodge would be 2nd on my list.  And I hear that Toyota is going to release a Diesel in '08.

Pulled with 2 other vehicles, '99 F150 Triton Gas -- had to use a load balancing hitch, trailer brakes mandatory (it would'nt stop it without them), never used Overdrive and got 6 mpg.  Never to that again, bounced around like crazy.  Other vehicle was a '03 BMW X5 (yes you read that right), pulled great for an inline 6, would run highway speeds but used every gear, didn't need trailer brakes (FYI, not an option on these vehicles and you can't easily add it yourself)  but I am sure I was eating them up.  Averaged 7 mpg surprizingly.  Did get wiped around alot but not as bad as the F150 (was amazing actually).

It would take a big change in Gas motors to get me to change away from pulling with my Diesel.  Haven't gone to bio or oil as Dave has said but have looked into it.

You might add that one to your list..  I would be interested in seeing how many people are making there own Bio-Diesel?
A Dean
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svracer469

There is a GREAT comparison write up in this Month's issue of Diesel Power Magazine too...great shoot-out power/economy/vs costs...

Vic Hyman
svracer469@yahoo.com
1999 SV650
2000 Ford Regency F350 7.3L Turbo Diesel

Hollywood

Hey guys, I just wanted to drop my 2 in as well. I think that the positives and negatives of each powerplant can be discussed for days. I've personally had better experiences with a diesel than a gas motor. I towed a 16 ft haulmark packed to the gills in 2005 with a 2005 5.3 Tahoe LT. Even with mods to the motor, it only got about 12 MPG, and didn't handle real well, even with trailer sway barsl.  But it sure was comfy. Then in 06 BG gave me a 2003 Dodge 3500 dually with the Cummins in it.....holy crap. I've discovered that even with almost the same amount of mileage per gallon, power is not a concern with that particular truck, at ANY speed. That company truck was also stock.  I learned that a truck that is very comfortable, with moderate power and handling will be parked in exchange for a boring interior and more power that I'll ever need(until a semi).

Overall vote: oil burner, anyday
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Quote from: benprobst on November 06, 2006, 12:46:44 AM
Plain in simple the diesel will be cooler, work better, and most likely will last longer. However, when it comes down to pure dollars, if you get equal quality trucks one with a diesel and one with a gas burner, the amount of miles you will have to put on to pay not only for the difference in purchase price, but also generally higher fuel prices will be alot. So basically the diesel by far a superior towing vehicle, but economically it rarely wins.

From what I was seeing Diesel got somewhere around 150% the mileage that gas did with the same load in the same conditions and it had plenty of power doing it, yet the fuel prices I have seen have mid-grade gas at about 90% the cost of Diesel. I kinda have an issue with the economical comparison you made, It's sad that most people will look at what is cheapest to their pocket book instead of what's best for the environment. This is kinda like the arguement that adding extra insulation when you have a house built would take 'X' amount of years to pay for itself and wouldn't be economically worth it, yet what is missed is the fact that there will be that much less pollution created by consuming less energy (imagine if all houses did this!). Diesel fuel is now currently being refined further than ever before (due to a government requirement begining at the end of the summer 2006) to provide even cleaner burning Diesel fuel that will have even more power because of it as well. Begining with 2007 Diesel engines they are designed specifically to run on this new fuel at extremely low emission levels, hence the warning stickers on the Diesel pumps that are not carrying the new Diesel yet warning not to use it in model year 2007 and newer vehicles. Diesel engines prior to the 2007 model year still benefit from this new fuel with lower emissions and more power also.

Not trying to be a jerk, this is just something that bothers me. I look at it like if I have to have a tow vehicle I want one that's going to do it well while getting better mileage and creating less pollution. Just my opinion. 8)
Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
MODERATOR

Court Jester

i got an 06 duramax. had a HUGE f350 diesel but it was over kill and the power stroke was always getting smoked. went to the 2500hd and have LOVED it.
at the moment i just pull a 22 foot enclosed trailer. if i can find the right one i'll have a good toy hauler for next year.
the milage isn't really that great pulling. about 9-12 mpg. but i set the cc pretty high. the few times i'm not pulling something, 15-19 mpg. really depeneds on how hard i'm driving.
but i love it.
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Steviebee

for the info.

i pull 6x12 enclosed pace trailer about 3000 pounds.

2001 Ford Ranger 4x4  4.0 sohc  and get about 12 mpg.  using overdrive  (got a chip/exhaust/intake)  at  75mph

only would get 10 mpg without OD at 75mph without the OD before the chip/intake/exhaust.

Pulls great no problems.  just gotta remeber braking takes longer.
cheers.