POLL - Which class would you cut?

[spyderchick]

If anything get it would be financially ideal to get rid of the classes with the smallest turnout (and I know I'm going to get flamed for this), like  ULWSB, 125GP and...........F40 / F40 lightweight.

As far as F-40 classes, the grids are actually growing, because it's a place where the...ahem...older racer can compete and feel like they're not going to get taken out by the 20 yr old testosterone boy on a kamikaze machine.

ULWSB is more of a toss up, because I think they keep it in to help out the budget racer or transitioning racer, but if the grids were shrinking or had plateaued, I'd agree they could lose the class. 125s need a place to safely run, and while they could compete in some LW classes, they are a bit of a bastard child, so by combining them with another class, they really don't take up any additional time during the weekend.

The best thing would be to restructure the GP/Superbike classes to streamline the schedule. Most guys do not run multiple bikes, and the few that do would not have a huge problem configuring their machines to tech through any new class development.


Oh, and I'm all for the SpeedTech spint format. The results should be used as qualifying for all of your entered races.

[ecumike]

125s need a place to safely run, and while they could compete in some LW classes, they are a bit of a bastard child, so by combining them with another class, they really don't take up any additional time during the weekend.

We're already combined with another class on the track :) ..I say ditch the redundant classes (combine SBK & GP) and that'll force bigger grids, and raise the laps and entry fees.

[motobenco]

I'd say Math class, use to cut English but it was to hard to communicate, then spell check came along.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Lets be for real Rob. The guys that know what they are doing need "3" laps tops for qualifying. 1 lap for warm up, the good hard lap, and a cool down. If you fuck up on the 2nd, you still have the 3rd. It, doesn't take 15 min. to qualify.

Really Nick you should come out to a corner during it ands see exactly how many riders are out for the whole 15 min. Some some in to the pit road to adjust their suspension and head back out and come back in and head back out. I seriously doubt that these guys are gonna wanna run 3 laps in 1 big group to qualify.

Seriously, qualifying isnt gonna happen. Hell ULGP Ex qualifying may be eliminated from what I've been hearing.

[cardzilla]

Really Nick you should come out to a corner during it ands see exactly how many riders are out for the whole 15 min. Some some in to the pit road to adjust their suspension and head back out and come back in and head back out. I seriously doubt that these guys are gonna wanna run 3 laps in 1 big group to qualify.

Seriously, qualifying isnt gonna happen. Hell ULGP Ex qualifying may be eliminated from what I've been hearing.

Well, when you get an average of 10 bikes on the grid what good is being on "pole" anyway?

To the question of who mods their bikes to the extent of the rules in superbike:

I'd have to say that my bike is close.  200 HP, trick stuff here and there, blah, blah, etc.  It has nothing to do with making me go around a track any faster ... hell, half the time I DNF or DNS because it's so high maintenance.  The fact is I enjoy designing, manufacturing, and generally tweaking things almost as much as racing.  The feeling when everything comes together and I get around quickly is more than worth it to me, but I think I'm very much in the minority.

[Super Dave]

OK, here is my .02;
 
(1) drop both GT and GP in order to lengthen the sprints with current class structure

Dave, then you advocate that there should be no place for grand prix only machines like RS/TZ125's, RS/TZ250's?

[Super Dave]

We're already combined with another class on the track :) ..I say ditch the redundant classes (combine SBK & GP) and that'll force bigger grids, and raise the laps and entry fees.

+1

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

As I posted in the other thread:

MotoGP and AMA Pro racing have great influence on bikes sold, just look at when the 600's and 1000's got so popular. Now MotoGP is going back to 800cc bikes. Track after track here in the US is having to make changes just to accomodate the 1000's and tires are being pushed to their threshold (and wearing out at incredibly fast rates on the 1000's). There have been rumors of the AMA Superbike class going back to Heavy Weight class bikes in the near future - following suit of the MotoGP. I'm not so sure that eliminating the (2) Heavy Weight classes is going in the direction that racing is going. Being someone that is over 200 lbs a 600 just doesn't work for me, to get the same power to weight ratio the majority of the 600 racers have I need a bit more Hp, but not excessive like on a 1000.

I pointed out before the 2006 season started that due to flaws in the new points system the majority of people who would get Top 10 plates would be the riders in the biggest classes due to how high their performance index is when finishing lower in the results as compared to those in smaller classes finishing better, in other words Middle Weight riders would have a huge advantage. The only exception to this would be riders who are constant podium finishers and run at least 6 classes, this is the reason Ed Key was able to get a Top 10 plate, but also the reason he got screwed out of a #1 plate. Jump forward to the final Top 10 points in the MW region and 7 rode Middle Weight bikes, 2 of them on Light Weight bikes and 1 on a Heavy Weight bike (riding only a Unlimited bike is statistically impossible to get a Top 10 plate when the max number of classes you can run is 4). Elimination of even 1 Lightweight class and 1 Heavy Weight class would mean that most likely every rider in the Top 10 points championship in 2007 will be on a Middle Weight bike - if that's the case you might as well change it to the "Middle Weight Points Championship" so it accurately depicts what it really would be.

[triumfh]

Super Dave,

hmm, well, I hadn't really thought of it like that.  I guess the 125 GP race would go away.  And I would hate to pull the rug from under racers dedicated to that class. 

I dunno, it seems to me these GP bikes already race production bikes in all other classes currently.  In ULWSB I see the 125s mixed with the FZR400s, EX500s, Hawks, small Ducs, etc.  I can honestly say  the GP125s are the minority in this class in the SE & FL.  However, I haven't taken a count.  That's not to say they aren't the majority in other regions.

In LWGP the 250s are outnumbered two to one by SVs, a/c Ducks, Buells, etc.  The Aprilia RSs used to be prominent but they seem to be fading away.  So the true GP style bikes don't race alone here either. 

With the exception of the 125s, if Superbike were rolled into GP or vice versa, wouldn't the GP bikes still be racing against the same bikes as now? 

I'm sure there are others out there with a more intimate knowledge of the entry numbers/bike types nationwide who would be better able to gauge the impact than I can.

I see a number of advantages in a contraction of classes including lengthening the sprints and simplifying the race day schedule.  How to go about the contraction seems to be the "sticky wicket".

Thanks for the chance to be heard,
Dave 

[rwracer]

.......if Superbike were rolled into GP or vice versa, wouldn't the GP bikes still be racing against the same bikes as now? 

+1

and check the poll results if you're not sure.

;)

[Super Dave]

MotoGP and AMA Pro racing have great influence on bikes sold, just look at when the 600's and 1000's got so popular. Now MotoGP is going back to 800cc bikes. Track after track here in the US is having to make changes just to accomodate the 1000's and tires are being pushed to their threshold (and wearing out at incredibly fast rates on the 1000's). There have been rumors of the AMA Superbike class going back to Heavy Weight class bikes in the near future - following suit of the MotoGP. I'm not so sure that eliminating the (2) Heavy Weight classes is going in the direction that racing is going. Being someone that is over 200 lbs a 600 just doesn't work for me, to get the same power to weight ratio the majority of the 600 racers have I need a bit more Hp, but not excessive like on a 1000.

Well, the 1000's became really more popular when they became lighter.  But the AMA didn't cater to the 1000cc fours until much later in AMA Superbike.  FX for 1000's existed before that.  Before that, there was the Three Hour Challenge.

Similarly, 600's were popular before the AMA had 600 Supersport.  FJ and FZ600's, Ninja 600's predate AMA 600 Supersport which started in 1987.  750 Supersport arrived in 1988. 

Sizes have been up and down.  CB900's, KZ1000's, and GS1000's were tire eaters, as were TZ750's, et al. 

In the early 90's, there was talk of Superbike becoming a 600 class.  I have heard that also recently, but that was put to rest recently when the AMA dedicated a set of rules for Superbike to be 1000cc fours for a set period.  That has resulted in, first, Kawasaki finally committing to AMA Superbike and, finally, Yamaha.

Does AMA Racing and FIM racing influence sales?  I think more cruisers are sold than sportbikes.  But sportbikes are certainly a niche market that needs to be coddled.

[ecumike]

Yes, just combine SBK and GP, so 125s & 250s would race in the new LW combined class.
And yes, in the GTL and LWGP we race pretty much the same people, so I don't think combining SBK would be much difference.