POLL - Which class would you cut?

[Super Dave]

GP includes Superbikes.  So, eliminate Superbike.  Superbikes will be in GP anyway.

Contingency will follow where it's needed.  The manufacturers don't care, call it production, supersport, superstreet, grand prix, superbike, etc.  It has a place.

[Jeff]

There are 6 GP classes and 10 Superbike classes...

HWSB can be absorbed into ULGP, but ultra light superbike can't be absorbed anywhere.  I don't know what ramification that would have though.  How many people would it affect and could they find something else to run?

[Jason748]

But it doesn't really make financial sense to drop the GP classes... take a look at the results and start counting the #'s in the GP classes.  CCS is a business right? and the GP classes are making money...

If anything get it would be financially ideal to get rid of the classes with the smallest turnout (and I know I'm going to get flamed for this), like  ULWSB, 125GP and...........F40 / F40 lightweight.

[grasshopper]

Actually qualifying for ULGP Ex takes longer than the race itself ironically.

Lets be for real Rob. The guys that know what they are doing need "3" laps tops for qualifying. 1 lap for warm up, the good hard lap, and a cool down. If you fuck up on the 2nd, you still have the 3rd. It, doesn't take 15 min. to qualify.

[h2o_motorsports]

How many people actualy mod thier bike to the extent that GP alows? 

[cardzilla]

GP includes Superbikes.  So, eliminate Superbike.  Superbikes will be in GP anyway.

Contingency will follow where it's needed.  The manufacturers don't care, call it production, supersport, superstreet, grand prix, superbike, etc.  It has a place.

Ditto.

I'll add that we should whack all Heavyweight (750) classes... sorry to the few of you who own a 750, but sadly it's a dying breed.  I'd be willing to be that the majority of entries in those classes are 600s anyway.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

How many people actualy mod thier bike to the extent that GP alows? 

Almost no one.  But Supersport rules are selectively restrictive, making many lightly modded bikes fall into the catagory of superbike.  Add cams?  Install brembo calipers?  Change the forks on an SV?  Add flatslides to an SV or older carburated four?  Decide you prefer the grip and wear of slicks?  Any one of those mods puts you in Superbike.
Honestly, I always felt that Supersport was a wash, at least in Lightweight.  Even Ed Key says his supremely modded SS bike is incapable of winning against his fastest Superbike competition.  Since I could only afford one bike, I ran GT, GP, and Superbike.  I would think that the differences become smaller as displacement rises, but still....
So Supersport is the class that makes the least sense.  "Wait!" you scream.  "What about the entry level guys?  Drop Supersport, and the guy with the stock bike has no competitive class to run!"  Bullshit.  A truly stock bike is wildly outclassed even in Supersport.  Let's look at what time and money can build in a Supersport legal package:

Bluprinted motor
Shaved cylinder head
Degreed cams
A cartridge kit in the front forks.
A racing shock
Full exhaust, reprogrammer, electric shifter
Carbon fiber and titanium wherever possible and legal

All this could double the price of a new bike.  How "stock" is it at that point?  Once you've modded a bike to this level, about all you can do to make it a Superbike is to add cams and slicks, which are ironically the two simplest and most cost-effective ways to improve a stock bike's performance.  So who are we kidding?  What is the reason for Supersport at its current level of legal modification?  I say either drop Supersport  entirely or seriously rewrite (restrict) the Supersport rulebook.

[Super Dave]

There are 6 GP classes and 10 Superbike classes...

HWSB can be absorbed into ULGP, but ultra light superbike can't be absorbed anywhere.  I don't know what ramification that would have though.  How many people would it affect and could they find something else to run?

Well, there's money to be lost for CCS with HWSB going away .  Make HWGP.  That would also allow TZ250's another place to run.  ULWSB...ULWGP?

[Super Dave]

Almost no one.  But Supersport rules are selectively restrictive, making many lightly modded bikes fall into the catagory of superbike.  Add cams?  Install brembo calipers?  Change the forks on an SV?  Add flatslides to an SV or older carburated four?  Decide you prefer the grip and wear of slicks?  Any one of those mods puts you in Superbike...

  A truly stock bike is wildly outclassed even in Supersport.  Let's look at what time and money can build in a Supersport legal package:

Bluprinted motor
Shaved cylinder head
Degreed cams
A cartridge kit in the front forks.
A racing shock
Full exhaust, reprogrammer, electric shifter
Carbon fiber and titanium wherever possible and legal

All this could double the price of a new bike.  How "stock" is it at that point?  Once you've modded a bike to this level, about all you can do to make it a Superbike is to add cams and slicks, which are ironically the two simplest and most cost-effective ways to improve a stock bike's performance.  So who are we kidding?  What is the reason for Supersport at its current level of legal modification?  I say either drop Supersport  entirely or seriously rewrite (restrict) the Supersport rulebook.

I've won races on bikes with stock motors, bodywork, a rear shock, and only mildly modded forks.  I've won races with stock forks.

No, supersport isn't stock, but in superbike you're gonna need all the stuff you say you have in supersport, which not everyone has, in addition to the things that you say are needed in superbike.  That's additional cost, I have to admit.

Some things are just not absolutely necessary either.  Even Larry Denning doesn't use a shifter cut out. 

[throttle]

Drop the GT classes and add $$ and laps, or $$ and practice, or $$ and Qs to the EX classes.

[J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp]

Damn you guys! This thread isn't going anywhere. No matter what someone is going to get pissed however the rules turn out.   
I say we just race scooters!

Oh wait I have a new class we can add to the series if you want to figure out one to eliminate for this one!

After Daytona this year I had an idea to change Sprint racing. I think it really should be sprint racing!

OK here are the rules for the middleweight class:
Any bike is allowed! Plus the race is only 1 LAP!
Bike must be weighed in and weigh no less than 360 lbs.
Bike must have 2 wheels only.
It cannot be running during the race. Machine must only move by the power of the rider pushing the bike. Rollerblades not allowed. Must wear offical roadracing boots.
Full riding gear must be worn.
The object of the race is to see who can push their motorcycle around the track 1 lap & win.
Grids will be set by qualifiying 40 yard sprinting times with full leathers on.

Lightweight class is sames rules but minimum of 250lbs.
Heavyweight is same rules but minimum of 450lbs.

This is a class were the lightweight guys will most likely have the best lap times!
All supersport machines must retain the original bearings in the wheels.
Maximum air pressure must be 30psi. Must have fully functional brakes installed front & rear.
Chain must installed and must be of at least a 520 pitch.
Clutch plates must still be in the bike along with the transmission. All pieces must be original and unmodified.

One rule of the race will be that the bike can be in any gear but neutral. The cluch can be pulled in.
We will see who has the best training program!
Class payout structure should be a purse of $2000 and pays back to 10th!

C'mon I think it's a go! I'm practicing tonight!

[triumfh]

OK, here is my .02;
 
(1) drop both GT and GP in order to lengthen the sprints with current class structure,
(2) add one middleweight twins class w/SB rules to get the larger capacity air-cooled twins out of LW & add 250GP bikes to this new MW Twins class,
(3) combine races when entries are low such as ULW or F40/LWF40 (as is done currently),
(4) hold two short qualifing sessions for the heaviest entry classes, or hold two short heat races for the heaviest entry classes; one each for odd/even #s
(5) tighten the Supersport rules and relax the Superbike rules to better separate veteran racers (who have accumulated more & better equipment) from the new racers just starting out
(6) go to a FL style schedule for the poor turnout tracks (practice/track day on Saturday, races on Sunday)
(7) offer vouchers as incentives to licensed racers who get their friends/acquaintances to apply for new racer licenses
(8) consider adding a showcase "Shootout" race, open to all, to end each weekend with vouchers as purse with a recommended minimum lap time to guide potential entrants

Short background on myself, long-time board lurker, racer since '02 both w/ CCS, ASRA and WERA in FL and SE regions;  CCS AM Nat'l Champ in '04; WERA AM Regional Champ in '04; mulitple time top 10 finisher in ASRA Thunderbike.

Thanks for listening,
Dave
CCS/ASRA Ex#505