LW classes!

[badmonkey]

There's no replacement for displacement. Bikes with almost twice the cc's of an sv will always win if riders are equal, and put those same bikes at Daytona and you don't even have to be able to ride to dominate. If you can't win, sell your sv, get a 2nd mortage on your house and go out and buy a buell ducati or bmw just to win a little piece of wood. Nah I'll just build a cheater motor.......

[George_Linhart]

There's no replacement for displacement. Bikes with almost twice the cc's of an sv will always win if riders are equal, and put those same bikes at Daytona and you don't even have to be able to ride to dominate. If you can't win, sell your sv, get a 2nd mortage on your house and go out and buy a buell ducati or bmw just to win a little piece of wood. Nah I'll just build a cheater motor.......   

Isn't this the same argument FZR400 riders made in the early years of the SV dominance of a series that used to be very competitive with the "old" equipment?

Here is what i say - just run in superbike and its not a cheater motor so you can quit the complaining.  There is an advantage to liquid cooling and 4 valve heads that don't get reflected in pure displacement.  The SV is way more modern and has a lot more technology than the Ducati, Buelll or BMW - each of these engine designs are at least 20 years old and really fits more in a vintage class if you want displacement parity.  From a pure capability standpoint an SV pushed out to SB rules can more than hold its (but you really have to replace that weak crank).  On a SS platform, you are somewhat correct - in order to keep the price point on the SV where it is Suzuki put cheap forks, suspension & brakes on the bike and left the engine devloping a lot less power than it could in order to use a weak (but inexpensive) crank.

A lot of guys in the past 2 years talked about how fast Ed's platform was and how hard it was to even stay in his draft - you could build something just as competitive with enough time and moeny.  OK, the BMW is new (but very few are racing anyway) but nothing else had changed...  If the BMW itself is so much better, I guess we will be seeing a lot more on the grid next year.  Personally you couldn't pay me to try and race at speed on the heavy and ill-handling lump of german engineering called a BMW!

[251am]

90 horsepower and 500lbs.  That's not fair?

Liquid cooled four cylinder are the main considerations, I believe.

R1200S might have 95 HP at the wheel. 25% of quoted OEM HP is lost on BMW shaft drive-BMW usually ALWAYS quotes HP from their crank. Torque is where it's at!!


DS SV, eh? Hmmmmm...

[Brad]

I think the biggest issue comes from LWSS riders. I think a Duc1000 is a stretch for LWSS and I race one!! At 86-90hp in stock trim its got a big advantage over a "ss built" SV of 6-10hp...The >new< 1200 BMW is at 115 in stock form, far better than the original Boxer Cup 1100.......I just don't get why people(SV guys in particular) are being slammed as whiners, because certain machines have simply outgrown the existing class structure, when they ask for a change...I would say limit big cc air cooled twins to SS trim in LW sbk/gp and allow sbk's in T-bike.

[Brad]

R1200S might have 95 HP at the wheel. 25% of quoted OEM HP is lost on BMW shaft drive-BMW usually ALWAYS quotes HP from their crank. Torque is where it's at!!


DS SV, eh? Hmmmmm...

Check post race ASRA Tbike results on a Factory Pro dyno..Add about 15% to get a dynojet #...Those are rear wheel #'s btw.

[PJ]

Check post race ASRA Tbike results on a Factory Pro dyno..Add about 15% to get a dynojet #...Those are rear wheel #'s btw.

Yes, but Thunderbike allows much more modification than the LW classes. Most of the Buells in ASRA Thunderbike are larger than 1200cc in displacement, i.e. illegal for any LW class.

[Brad]

Yes, but Thunderbike allows much more modification than the LW classes. Most of the Buells in ASRA Thunderbike are larger than 1200cc in displacement, i.e. illegal for any LW class.

Correct, I was pointing out to 251 that his hp # for the new R12 is about 20 short though..As the R1200 is being raced in -all- of the LW classes(where highly modded Buells with similar power cannot) as well as Tbike.

[cbr-racer]

F2's should run LW classes too

[ahastings]

Liquid cooled four cylinder are the main considerations, I believe.

R1200S might have 95 HP at the wheel. 25% of quoted OEM HP is lost on BMW shaft drive-BMW usually ALWAYS quotes HP from their crank. Torque is where it's at!!


DS SV, eh? Hmmmmm...

Wrong- Sport rider just did a shootout of The new BMW R1200s VS the SV 1000 and ran them both on the dyno. The BMW made 112 HP bone stock and the SV 1000 made 111 HP at the rear wheel. I was surprised myself, I knew that BMW was fast just didn't realize it made that much power. They also liked the handling better than the SV 1000.

[Ducati23]

Sounds like we need some other twins classes.  A class for BMW1200's, Ducati aircooled twins up to 1100 and Ducati 749's and other similar machines. The SV is still a great bike, I race one along with my Ducati's, but it doesn't do well when pushed above 90 hp. They blow up, spin bearings and other bad things. The SV and Ninja 650 should be LW class machines, with these others in "Middleweight" twins leaving the big stuff for "Supertwins" and "Heavyweight" twins classes. 

I sent some rules change requests to Kevin prior to the cut off date. Will it be considered? Who knows.

Clayton
#23 Ex GP
DUCATI Omaha

[clutch]

Hey George, no one is whining.  No rider at Daytona had a shot at beating that BMW in LWSS.  The BMW theory was just proven in the post that Arnie put up.  It is a Super Twin!!

[Duc-Hunter]

I've come across an abomination I was interested in trying to run LW or ULW with and couldn't find anything stating if it would be legal,... I'm assuming it wouldn't be but I thought I'd ask here:

Would a Derbi RS50 with  CR250 motor stuffed inside be legal? It's 2 stroke air cooled so I guess the motor would be okay but do the motor & frame have to be from the same manufacturer?

Let the flaming of the n00b commence... :)