Sorry for yet another nubie question

[grim_racer]

I plan on racing for the first time this season.  I don't want to get a perfectly good bike, just to destroy it. I found some salvage bikes that seem to be ok to turn into a track bike.  Should I worry about small dents on the frame?  Anything else i need to look for? HELP!!!

[roadrashroeser]

I wouldn't worry about the dents, but I recommend you get the frame measured by a qualified person who has a computrax or similar sysem. My opinion.This way you know if the bike is straight.

[YTAK_Racing]

There are so many people selling thier bikes cheap.  Why go through the head ache.  Buy a race ready bike..used.  Look in the classified..here and wera.

[ecumike]

Yea, Pete Moravek has his FZR400 for sale pretty cheap. IN the classifieds

[FullMoonRacing]

There are so many people selling thier bikes cheap.  Why go through the head ache.  Buy a race ready bike..used.  Look in the classified..here and wera.

Agreed, this is the smartest way to start out! Buying a race-ready bike will save you lots of research and headaches.

[Super Dave]

A dent on the frame might mean that the frame was impacted, or that it is bent in that area.  

And newer bikes are just made lighter.  The wheels and forks and stuff just bend in a heart beat.  Watch out.  A good used race bike can be very valuable.

Where are you going to be racing?

[grim_racer]

I live about 40 miles south of St. Louis so my first few races will be at Gateway and BHF.  Thanks for the advice so far. I am pretty new to racing, having only watched a couple at Gateway. I had a GSXR 600 at one time but a couple crashes have kept me off the street for two years now. I read about CCS in a magazine I bought during a recovery period and it is all I can think about now. hopefully this will be good for me.

[Super Dave]

If my school can help you, we're here.  We work with new guys through experts.  If we can help...  

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Dave's school is outstanding, and will qualify you for a race license.  Dave really works with you, and will be watching out for you in the future after you've been his student.  As a quick amateur, I found 5 seconds in one day at Visionsports.  If only I had hooked up with Dave three seasons sooner!  He could have really accelerated my learning curve, thus saving me tons of money and frustration.
This will be my first year as an expert, so I have inrolled for every school date Dave is offering this year.  Actually, I am just wasting my money.  Yeah, that's the ticket!  Ignore the first paragraph.  What was I thinking?
ATTENTION ALL EXPERTS!  DO NOT TAKE THE VISIONSPORTS SCHOOL!!  IT WILL NOT MAKE YOU FASTER!!  ESPECIALLY YOU, EDGAR!  I REPEAT:  ATTENTION ALL EXPERTS!  DO NOT TAKE THE VISIONSPORTS SCHOOL!! ;) ;D ;D ;D

[Xian_13]

Boy Dave, you sure have qite the following....
Maybe its time I take a vacation day for April 3 :)

[Super Dave]

I don't look at it as a following...

But I struggled for a long, long time, got lots of bad information.  After a long time, I got things figured out.  I keep figuring things out.

I know the places people have been in.  I got out of them too.  What I do isn't because I'm fast or slow, but I can see things, I can explain them ten different ways, I can infer things for a rider that he doesn't understand.  There is no magic, but there does always seem to be a pattern.

As for my man K3 dropping time...I'm there to point you in the right direction.  It can be frustrating and disappointing.  But often times as street riders, we do things....well, weird.  Sometimes its a matter of breaking a habbit, etc.

I'm here to help.  I certainly am not getting anything more than a bigger debt for doing it.  But I love motorcycle road racing.  

Community...

(This is fun.  This is fun...)

[KBOlsen]

Dave, this IS fun... just remember to "breathe".

VisionSports was some of the best $ I spent last year... and will prolly be the best $ I'm spending this year.  Dave really goes ABOVE and BEYOND to help those who come to him.

[Xian_13]

....  But often times as street riders, we do things....well, weird.  Sometimes its a matter of breaking a habbit, etc.

(This is fun.  This is fun...)

Well after 13 years of *Legal* Street riding, I am looking at everything like learning to walk again.

I have been riding out on the ice.. heading out in a few mins now.... But between the 2 races I ran, and this ice riding  ???
Seems like everything I thought no longer applies. Funny how old bad habits are so darn hard to break ;D

[Super Dave]

Exactly.  And if you don't know what the bad habbits are...

Even then, sometimes it takes a day, or a weekend, or an inquisitive question from me down the road, to get the the brunt of the "problem."  

Needless to say, I didn't have that kind of help.  The only one that was able to do that for me at all was Dale Quarterley.  And sometimes it wasn't my riding, it was my state of mind.  I understand it all now very well.

[grim_racer]

what is an average budget for the first couple years as beginner?

[Thingy]

what is an average budget for the first couple years as beginner?

Don't ask, you don't want to know...

(It is still worth it, though!)

[grim_racer]

it's ok, i'm a big boy. I am prepared. (sitting down)

[mdr14]

Lets say your hard core into it and want to race a bunch.
Budget $250 for race fees per weekend, for like 6 races or so, one set of race tires per weekend ( what do they go for 325-340 a set? Depends on the brand of tire you choose and if you have any hook ups. It is cheaper to buy tires than fix crash damage) If you choose the ever popular VP race fuel ( or some equivalent) that could be about $90 for about 10 gallons of Ultimate 4.

Of course you have travel expenses and other consumables over the season.

Yeah, you can do it cheaper, but you will be sacrificing something, track tire, tire quality, safety, horsepower.

[FullMoonRacing]

it's ok, i'm a big boy. I am prepared. (sitting down)

The quick answer...
AS MUCH AS YOU'VE GOT!

[Super Dave]

Don't think of it as a budget...

It's more like a really, really, really bad addiction.

How much really?

Well, you've gotta have goals.  Are you going to Daytona in October?  Don't race as much during the year, unless you've got a sugar daddy, so you can pay for the tires/fuel there.  Pick and choose the races you REALLY want to do well in.  If your a little inexperienced, pick out a GP class vs a Superbike class, if you can.  You might do better in it, placement wise, and feel a bit more motivated in other races.  Purse classes are great, if you can get a pay back.  Practice?  Or a real school?  Tires?  You can probably use up two rear tires to one front.  Brakes...

How fast do you want to go, is the famous saying....

[KBOlsen]

Plan on five figures before the decimal.  First year is the most expensive, next year is almost as expensive.  Don't think of it in terms of dollars.  It will be the most fun you will ever have in your life!!!!!!!!!

Entry for 6 races per weekend (including a GP and GT race) is more like $330, plus $35 per head gate fee.

Here's a link you might find helpful...http://www.formulausa.com/forms/03%20New%20Racer%20Pkg.PDF

[grim_racer]

Great I looked at my money situation, and I figure if I don't eat or drive any where( not even to work) I might have enough money to do that. I work as a car audio installer.  NOT A LOT OF MONEY!!!!!

[KBOlsen]

Don't be discouraged... My estimate may be higher than your actual cost based on a variety of factors (my dog is not track-friendly and must be boarded every weekend, for example).  Plus, last year I had to purchase all of my safety gear (suit, boots, gloves, back protector, 2 helmets) and the bike.

You can save a lot of $ by sleeping/cooking at the track, doing your own mechanical work, scrounging eBay for used parts...  and nobody said you HAVE to run 6 races EVERY weekend.  My suggestion as to how best to allocate your $ would be:

1.  Safety Gear (get the best you can afford)
2.  Suspension/Tires/VisionSports
3.  Everything else.

[Xian_13]

....., scrounging eBay for used parts...

I have bought so many spares off of Ebay I am thinking about running them as a Sponcor ;D

[grim_racer]

I plan on riding a GSXR 600. What races? Where do I have hope? I really have to watch my spending. I was thinking about starting with 4 races a weekend. Sorry again for the questions.

[Super Dave]

Well, three middleweight classes, Supersport, Superbike, Grand Prix...

Then the solo "endurance" race, GTU.  GTU costs more because it has a purse.  And it has a specifice time limit, 30 minutes.  Problem is that there are usually good accidents in it, taking away from your track time.  

You can bump your 600 into the heavyweight and unlimited classes.

But really you want to keep it simple, so try to focus on something and keep at it.  

[grim_racer]

But is that really enough track time?  I don't expect to be the best, but I would like to get better as I go.

[Super Dave]

The quality of your track time is very, very important.

Quantity can help a bit, but, like I've always said....

It's silly to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome.

Lap after lap after lap...  That will allow you some familiarity with what you have, but it probably won't net any great changes.  A good helper is a great asset.  It's a shameless plug, yes, but that was how I started...  Doing endurance races, etc., in search of track time that would make me faster.  Wasn't until I met people that gave me different ideas and advice when I was an AMA Pro regular that it all started to come together.  

[Steviebee]

Im going through the same thing Grim_racer.

First year racing ??   Figureing out what i can enter (afford),  and what is required to buy, and what is a luxury.

I added up all the races and track days and schools i wanted to attend.  5 races per weekend (2 purse ones, almost double for twin sprint weekends) 12 weekends , 3 1-day schools , 3 2-day schools, and 4-5 2-day track days .   it was about $8200   just for entry.

That doesnt include tires, gas, food, getting there, camping gear, trailer.   and the list goes on and on and on.

But one weekend is only a few hundred bucks, once you have the gear.  Or as little as 100 bucks for 1 30 min race.

Look forward to seeing ya.   I dont want to bee the only one dazed and confused !!

[grim_racer]

now that is a little better.  I was just about to try to talk myself out of this whole thing.

[Dawn]

Here you go guys, this is what we spent last year for Paul (racer husband), Dawn (crew chief wife) and Renee (cheerleader daughter).

This is how our second season of racing went.
 
Total number of race dates:  13
Total number of races attended:  8 (61%)
Number of races entered:  28
DNS:  6  (21%)
DNF:  1  
Top 10's:  17  (77%)  
Podiums:  1
Total amount of money spent:  $6636.28  
 
Dawn    
 
P.S.  Personally I don't think that this is too bad for a big guy on a stock SV.    

[chris_chops]

How to save money for racing:
        Cancel all your bills and give up the house.  Sleep on anyone's couch you can and get an air mattress for your truck when that doesn't work. Find a hose for showering.  Don't get a cell phone or anything that isn't needed for racing.  Keep your job, but don't let them know you are homeless and without a phone, they'll only laugh real hard and call you a freak(which you already know is true).  Go out and get drunk twice, no three times a week, to keep your situation from bothering you.  Now when you get to the track spend all your money, cuz your home baby!

[TZDeSioux]

or you could just get a really well paying job?  ???

[oldguy]

Or wait until you're old and have a good job- ::)

[grim_racer]

Someone help me find a salvage GSXR600 worth putting on the track!!!!!  I will travel for it.You people are making me crazy. :P I want to race really bad now.

[Steviebee]

Do you find your self daydreaming about racing 24/7 now..  its only 2 more months..

btw where you are you wanting to race ?

[grim_racer]

I just got done looking at the race season in Florida. Wow ! Feb-Dec. Why do I live in MO. :'( Gateway needs to have a track day earlier in the year. ;D

[Super Dave]

Right, but we get November through March to try to make enough money to do it...  I'm not sure which is worse...

[KBOlsen]

Matt's got a 600 Gixxer for sale cheap... he's got it posted in the classifieds here.