A shitty situation at Gingerman

[Burt Munro]

1.  Why were there no officials on pit road indicating what to do?

   

Jeff,

The Pit-in/Pit-out arrangment at Gingerman creates some problems.  I have only been working Grid or Pit-out there since 2002 so I don't know how it was handled before. 

The normal CCS official placement is to have the Pit-out person staged near the Turn 1 end of Hot Pit for 2 reasons: to keep better control of riders who may try to enter a 'Red" track thru the guard rail break near the Turn 1 end of Hot Pit and to provide an extra set of eyes to assist  the Starter in safely launching the 2nd wave on Starts thru Turn 1.

I don't recall a time when we have been able to position an official at the Turn 11 end of Hot Pit. (I do believe there may have been a corner worker stationed between the track at Turn 11 and the Pit-in road, but his responsibilities were to assist any riders who may over shoot  Turn 11 and end up in the gravel pit.)

At the time of the Red flag I was standing with the other Grid Marshall near the guard rail at about row 4 or 5 of the Grid.  There would have been no physical way for us to get from there to the Pit-in turn into the Paddock before bikes started coming off the track.  As someone else mentioned, we were short staffed last weekend, but that didn't affect how this incident was handled.

As I said before, Gingerman is a different layout than most other Tracks.  Since Blackhawk is the Track most of the Midwest riders have run, I'll use that as an example.  A CCS official is positioned at Pit-out to ensure that bikes don't enter the Track until we have a confirmation on a "Green" Track.  When we have a Red flag situation, due to the location of Pit-in, riders must pass by the Grid Marshalls to enter the paddock.   Status of the race while on Hot Pit is easily communicated.  Obviously, this isn't the case at Gingerman. 

I'm convinced that this was a case of the 1st person off the track making either a bad decision to leave Hot Pit or else a decision that he was going into the Paddock, regardless of whether the race was done or not.  Other riders behind him may have "assumed" that the riders ahead of them "knew" that the raced was called complete and without a thought, followed the leader into the paddock.

I think everyone involved will agree that the sequence of events that led up to 5 riders being DQ'd wasn't good for anyone!!

[Jeff]

Rick, you're right.  I was thinking about it last night, and in order to exit at BHF whether for race end or red flag, you have to go past a CCS official.  Gingerman is not that way...

Ahh well...  lessons learned...

[Suzy]

we often look to someone in a white shirt for guidance. 

The only announcements we hear over the radios are for corners. We don't hear tech and scoring or anything else, they are on different channels. The only calls I hear are which flag to wave.  

If you guys want to be more informed at the track, go get a scanner and you can hear the whole thing.  

[Jeff]

If you guys want to be more informed at the track, go get a scanner and you can hear the whole thing.  

Sure thing.  I'll strap one to my back before heading out.

[Suzy]

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2416884&cp=2032052.2032072&parentPage=family

looks portable enough to fit somewhere, maybe  

also looks out of stock, so it's popular.  

[Plarposaurus Wrecks]

Maybe a rule change suggestion?  After the first rider of a race recieves the halfway flag, if the race is red flagged at any point thereafter it can be deemed complete?

That'd be analogous to the leading rider taking the checkered flag and calling it a race. It's got to be the last lap that everyone crossed the line so final position is accounted for.

[Jeff]

That'd be analogous to the leading rider taking the checkered flag and calling it a race. It's got to be the last lap that everyone crossed the line so final position is accounted for.

Where we run into problems (I think) is that on a lot of these races (combined EX/AM), we run into lapped traffic by lap 2 or 3.  So the "entire field" becomes subjective at that point.

I understand your point and don't think necessarily that the lead guy should make the determination, but the tail guy should be clearly defined.  Perhaps it is and I just don't know about it.  I race, I don't score, so I couldn't really say...

[Suzy]

Hey, better yet just found it, check this one out. Get the headset for your helmet and I think you good to go!!!  

http://www.zanderradiosystems.com/specials.htm

[Plarposaurus Wrecks]

I understand your point and don't think necessarily that the lead guy should make the determination, but the tail guy should be clearly defined.  Perhaps it is and I just don't know about it.  I race, I don't score, so I couldn't really say...

You're right, but it's also race direction's job to get all the races done before the day at the track is up. I do believe that the novices ... sorry, amatures (te he) should be gridded together on the restart, not on overall running order. They are seperate races.

Exactly what the rulebook says, me not know, because Jane no send me rule book yet. Unga bunga. :p

[Jeff]

Whoa!  The AM's were gridded with the EX's on the restart?  Wow... didn't know that. 

[tzracer]

Doesn't anyone read the rulebook?

M. When an event is stopped with less than two laps completed, a complete restart
will be performed, using original grid positions.
(1.) In the case of timed events, the clock will continue to run during the red flag,
regardless of the number of laps completed.
O. Should a sprint race be stopped with more than two laps completed, but less than
one half of the posted distance, the field will be re-gridded for the restart.
(1.) Riders will be given credit for the laps completed as they cross the finish line
in the lap preceding the lap in which the red flag has been displayed. The riders
will be re-gridded as to the running order of that last complete lap. This means
the position on the track, not the position in the race.
(a.) Any rider(s) deemed to be responsible for the red-flag incident will be
placed on the last row of the new grid.
(2.) The remaining laps will be run, less credit for those completed, in an effort to
complete the total distance posted.
(3.) Should the red flag be displayed in a race that has seen more than 50% of the
total posted laps completed, the race may be considered complete.
(4.) Should the red flag be displayed in a race that has seen more than 80% of the
total posted laps completed, the race will be considered complete and there will
be no restart.

Once the race is over 50% complete, it does not have to restart, choice of the race director.
After 80% - no restart.

After 2 complete laps regrids are done by running order - that is the order the bikes are on
the track, not by race order (leader, 2nd, 3rd, etc). First on grid will be the leader followed by all bikes on track
in the order of the last complete lap. If there were 5 lappers between 1st and 2nd, there will be 5 bikes
between 1st and 2nd place on the grid. It is done that way for simplicity and speed. Much easier to get
running order than race order.

[barb_arah]

Yeah, this is the second time in less than a year that my car was involved in an accident in which it received damages.  The best part is neither one was my fault!