Ducati 749, 748, and XBRR in Thunderbike Classes

[surber905]

Why is the Ducati 749 excluded from the Thunderbike Classes?  I watched a couple Buell XBRR's out there racing.  The rulebook states you can run a 748, but not the replacement model 749.  Ducati North America will not pay any contingency on a 748 since the last model made was in 2003.  Lets compare the three models.

                            XBRR                                         Ducati 749                      Ducati 748

CC's                     1339                                         748                                 748
Bore/Stroke (MM) 103.6 X 79.4                             90.0 X 58.8                     88.0 X 61.5
Compression       12.5 to 1                                   11.7 to 1                         11.5 to 1
Horsepower         150+ Peak                                106.61                            97
Weight                 362 LBS.                                    414.5                             432.1

As you can tell there is little if any advantage with a 749 over the 748, but no where close to what a XBRR is putting out.

[EX_#76]

The XBRR should be illegal in ASRA Tbike unless ARSA has made an exception as stated in 6.11.1
Here is what the rule book states:

6.11 THUNDERBIKE - Thunderbike machines, except single cylinder machines, are based
upon production models, sold by manufacturers and their dealers in North America for
street use. Proof of compliance rests with the competitor entering the motorcycle. Single
cylinder machines are exempt from production and street use requirements. Single cylinder
2 stroke GP road race machines are not allowed in this class. All machines must have
unaltered VIN numbers.
NOTE: Ducati 749 Series machines are excluded from this class.
6.11.1 Production machines not sold by manufacturers and their dealers for street use in
North America via normal commercial channels may be approved on an individual
basis. ASRA will maintain a list of non-standard approved models and that
list will be available at each event from the Race Director/Referee.
A. ASRA reserves the right to re-factor machines at any time. ASRA will notify
current licensees 30 days prior to any change. Changes will take effect 30 days
from the original date of notification.

[surber905]

You are correct, I kick myself in the nutz , I watched the xb-12r not the RR.  Sorry about that Buell guys.    But, I still think if CCS would update the rules to include the 749, you might have more participation from the Ducati's, because we can then run for contingency money.  With Ducati pulling out of the AMA what are they doing with that money anyway???  Kicking it to higher contingency, bigger money races for the regional/national series like CCS/ASRA?  Is Buell the only one paying contingency to there amateurs?

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Yep looks like Buell is the only one who pays for am.

No need for a 749 (or even a 748) in Tbike. Thunderbike is mainly lightweights (SV650, XB9/12R, Hawks...) and older 600 I4's.

[EX_#76]

The rules do not make good sense to me.  It should not matter if you have a 748 or 749 in ASRA your bike has to meet the 4Lbs per HP rule.

[N8Kern]

They should be allowed whenit comes to the 4 to 1 ratio.  Just does not take as much money to make them go good.

n8!

[jarelj]

I'd race my 749 in Thunderbike if it was allowed instead of riding my lightweight bike in that class.  As it stands now, there's really no suitable class for the 749 except SuperTwins on some shorter tracks where the liter-class twins can't pull away.  It's not competitive in any of the Middleweight classes (Expert class - where the bike matters more than in Amateur), especially now that the 600's have gone to stratospheric horsepower levels, so that's no good.  What's left?  It's like the black sheep bike, a great bike that is fun to ride with superb handling, but not enough power to really compete in the class it's forced into.  I say let the 749 in Thunderbike! 

[Super Dave]

600's still win 1000cc races in CCS.  The difference in HP is greater there.  I think it still is about set up.

I would agree with Nate that I don't think that the liquid cooled Ducati's should be in T-bike.  Right now, it's a very, very cool class.  My crank should be coming for my H1 soon.   Long wait.

[EX_#76]

600's still win 1000cc races in CCS.  The difference in HP is greater there.  I think it still is about set up.

I would agree with Nate that I don't think that the liquid cooled Ducati's should be in T-bike.  Right now, it's a very, very cool class.  My crank should be coming for my H1 soon.   Long wait.

748s are liquid cooled and they are legal for Tbike now. 

[Super Dave]

CCS or both CCS and ASRA?

[EX_#76]

CCS or both CCS and ASRA?

748 is ok for both CCS and ASRA.  749 is not legal for either

[jarelj]

748 is ok for both CCS and ASRA.  749 is not legal for either

That's what makes no sense to me, the 749 is only marginally quicker than the 748 in street trim and in race trim it's pretty much a wash, so how did it ever come to be specifically excluded from the class in the first place?  Especially now that the 749 is being discontinued for 2007, it seems like it would be a good fit in Thunderbike.