Should CCS grid by points?

[StuartV666]

I find it hard to believe that if you were fast enough to finish top 3 that you couldn't even crack the top 15 even if you were in the back of a 40+ grid.

Heh. :-) Let's see you start somewhere in the middle or back of the 2nd wave on a grid of 40+ riders and get to the top 15 in 6 (or less) laps.

I'm not sure which part you don't believe. You can (probably) check WERA race results from the beginning of '02 for FL region races. I had a couple of 17ths as my best in the 600 SS class. And you can check the CCS records from '03. I won the SE Region Overall Amateur championship (plus a couple of class championships and the Roebling track championship). And I was riding the same '00 R6, with the same motor and suspension, the whole time.

[StuartV666]

If anyone should be rewarded, it NEEDS to be the regulars, as they finance CCS.

That is EXACTLY the attitude that has bothered me so much in dealing with so many WERA regulars over the years. "This is OUR club and we should get preferential treatment."

I think that's a bunch of BS. Every racer should be treated equally. Every racer should (ideally) be able to finish the race in the position that truly reflects how fast they were compared to other people in that race. The, for example, 3rd fastest guy on the track should not be put in a position by the organizers where they can't realistically finish higher than 15th, just because they are not a regular. Rules like that REDUCE the number of entries, not increase them.

Imagine you're a "regular" in a series that grids by points and you start the season finishing well. You're getting good grid spots. Then May rolls around and you crash and break your arm and now you're out until August. August rolls around and you're ready to ride. But now you're so far down in points that you know you're going to be gridded probably in the 2nd wave of any race you enter. How appealing is that? I'd say there's a pretty good chance you might decide to skip some rounds, or maybe the whole rest of the season and, instead, focus on getting ready, physically, logistically, and finanically, for next season.

Now, in contrast, imagine you're a "regular" in CCS (with current gridding rules) and you start the season by pre-entering each race weekend 5 weeks ahead. In my experience with CCS, pre-entering just 4 weeks before has always gotten me a grid spot in the first 3 rows. So, you're still finishing well, just like in the other series. Now, May rolls around, you break your arm, and you're out until August. August rolls around and you're ready to ride. Now, you can still pre-enter 4 or 5 weeks ahead and still have a decent grid spot. How appealing is that?

A series that rewards "regulars" is a series that has decreasing appeal all through the year to the non-regulars. A series that treats everybody equally is, at least to me, a far more appealing one to participate in.

The 2nd scenario seems to me to be much more likely to keep people coming back.

[PFinn]

+1

[Super Dave]

LOL!

[Super Dave]

A series that rewards "regulars" is a series that has decreasing appeal all through the year to the non-regulars. A series that treats everybody equally is, at least to me, a far more appealing one to participate in.

The 2nd scenario seems to me to be much more likely to keep people coming back.

Seems like your opinion is from someone that isn't sure what series they go to regularly.

Equality?  When has that existed on a race track?  Ability?  Machinery?  Finances?

If a business shouldn't reward loyalty of it's best customers, then I'm betting the business isn't so healthy.

[ahastings]

"666" by your logic I suppose the Daytona ROC shouldn't be gridded by points either. Why should the people running the series all year have an advantage in the grid.
   With CCS points structure, and if they only grid the pre-entries by points, anybody with some points that pre-enters is going to be gridded reasonably near the front.

[jryer]

1. Lap times - determine grid.
2. Points - determine championship.
3. Money - enables the vision.

I know we aren't MotoGP, AMA, or FIM, but each of these organizations
basically follow this structure (leaving politics out of it).
CCS is a great organization and I'm grateful it exists. Obviously this
is not MotoGP, AMA, or FIM, but one of the things they all have in
common is lap times determine gridding position. We all agree that a
qualifing session is not possible (too many classes). However,
lap times recorded during practice sessions is an intriguing idea and
is worthy of consideration. In fact the last MotoGP gridding in Malaysia
(2006) was determined by this method (heavy rains prevented the
qualifing session). This encourages bike setup, which creates
a team mentality and places emphasizes on the need for sponsors.
Sponsors bring the much needed money (a healthy CCS). There are
logistic issues to iron out even with the recorded lap times during
practice, but it can work. The system I like least is pay first play first.
Money should not directly determine grid (indirectly of course it does).
Points is a little better but as StuartV666 has already stated, it doesn't
determine who's fastest on that day, and that's really the whole point
of running a bunch of bikes around a track (who's the quickest).
Lap times during practice gets my vote.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Screw it lets grid up by alphabetical order. Even races z-a, odd races a-z. Then switch to even race a-z and odd races z-a the next weekend.

Or maybe lets grid up by height.

[HAWK]

Screw it lets grid up by alphabetical order. Even races z-a, odd races a-z. Then switch to even race a-z and odd races z-a the next weekend.

Or maybe lets grid up by height.

But then I ALWAYS grid in the middle! WAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!
8)

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

So wouldnt I.

[Mongo]

Hey Stuart - you still looking for that $2???  ;)

I'll put money on Arnie being gridded at the back of a second wave and making it into the top 15. 

[badmonkey]

I know many of you may not of thought of this but many people like myself don't chase points.  I run the tracks I like and skip the rest. I race about 6-8 weekends a year. I choose to pre-enter to get a decent grid position, if the gridding goes by points there is no point in me pre-registering correct? So if that weekend roles around and it looks like it may rain would you drive 4-7 hours to race if not pre-registered. Probably not ,you would be more apt to blow it off. See my point? Either way I will still have fun. Oh Arnie the motor is in the bike...MUHAHAHAHAHA