Should CCS grid by points?

[jryer]

BadMonkey you right. That's all the more reason to grid by lap times recorded during practice. This way regardless of points or who pre-entered first, everybody has a fair shake at making it to the front of the grid.

[StuartV666]

Seems like your opinion is from someone that isn't sure what series they go to regularly.

No, actually, I'm quite sure. Generally (2003 being the exception), I'm not pursuing a Regional championship. So, I'm quite sure I will go to the races that are convenient and at tracks I like. Whether it's CCS or WERA. Though I'm not pursuing a points championship, I do want to win the individual races that I'm in, or as close as possible. That's the point of racing, isn't it? Naturally, when picking and choosing which races I'm going to go to, how I think I can finish factors into the decision. Thus, if I know I can go to a CCS race and get a decent grid spot that will sway me towards CCS over going to a WERA race which is probably going to have me gridded much further back.

Equality?  When has that existed on a race track?  Ability?  Machinery?  Finances?

If you don't favor having the sanctioning body provide and promote equality of opportunity for all racers, then I don't think I have anything more to say to you. Personally, I want the same rules for everybody and, to me, the ideal racing series would be one where the winner is purely decided by rider ability. Differences should be in what the riders bring to the table, not what opportunities the sanctioning body gives them. If the riders show up to the track and the organizer says "I'm going to give you a good grid spot because you've been coming to my races often, and I'm going to give you other rider a grid spot at the back because I've never seen you before", that is not giving all the riders equal opportunity in that race.

If a business shouldn't reward loyalty of it's best customers, then I'm betting the business isn't so healthy.

Would you go back to a restaurant if you went in for the first time and had to wait for 2 hours because they were full and every time a table opened up, a "regular" who had just walked in got it? I don't know how you run your business, but I do not run mine by rewarding one person's loyalty at the expense of another's. Rewarding loyalty is fine - just not at the expense of another customer.

If CCS actually wants to reward loyalty, I'd suggest track fee discounts for people who race a lot, or reduced license renewal fees after so many years, etc.. There are lots of ways to reward loyalty that don't give one customer an advantage on the track over another.

[StuartV666]

"666" by your logic I suppose the Daytona ROC shouldn't be gridded by points either. Why should the people running the series all year have an advantage in the grid.

Ummm, no. The express purpose of the ROC is to award National Championships in each class. It's not awarding points towards some championship. It's awarding the championship itself.

I think it's obvious to everybody that the ROC is fundamentally different in purpose than a regional event, so I'm not going to waste my time explaining it further.

[StuartV666]

Hey Stuart - you still looking for that $2???  ;)

Well, I'd take it. Not only did I not get a refund from WERA for the race that was declared complete after 2 one-lap redflagged starts (and in which, on neither lap did the entire field pass Start/Finish before the red flag was thrown), I didn't get a refund for the other classes I was entered in that day that never ran at all. Despite the fact that I called the WERA office and asked for them.

[StuartV666]

I know many of you may not of thought of this but many people like myself don't chase points. ...

+1 What he said!

[Mongo]

Well, I'd take it. Not only did I not get a refund from WERA for the race that was declared complete after 2 one-lap redflagged starts (and in which, on neither lap did the entire field pass Start/Finish before the red flag was thrown), I didn't get a refund for the other classes I was entered in that day that never ran at all. Despite the fact that I called the WERA office and asked for them.

Nope you didn't, we wanted to be positive you'd become someone elses problem.   

Sometimes people wonder why I say there are some "racers"  I'd love to never have run with us again - then all I need to do is introduce them to people like you.

[ahastings]

Ummm, no. The express purpose of the ROC is to award National Championships in each class. It's not awarding points towards some championship. It's awarding the championship itself.

I think it's obvious to everybody that the ROC is fundamentally different in purpose than a regional event, so I'm not going to waste my time explaining it further.

So what your saying is the only reason for awarding points at all in the regional series is for ROC grid position since regional championships are irrelevant .
      After you run one round in a series you will have points, and if they grid only the pre-entries by points then you will still get a good grid postion if you pre-enter. Why should someone that can't even crack the top 20 in a race be gridded on the front row because he sends in his entry first, he becomes a hazzard to himself and others around him on the start, I have seen it many times.

[PJ]

Why should someone that can't even crack the top 20 in a race be gridded on the front row because he sends in his entry first, he becomes a hazzard to himself and others around him on the start, I have seen it many times.

Amen brother.

A few times this season, I've seen a racer who is at least 10 seconds off the pace pre-register early enough that he's on the front row, effectively bumping back other racers who need to get to the first turn with the leaders in order to challenge for the win. I always wonder, why does he do that?? It's an accident waiting to happen. His finish will not be affected by his grid position. For others, it matters.

[Super Dave]

+1

[cbr-racer]

I never pre-register cause I know I'm not fast enough yet. So I'm just happy to get out and do what I love to do race. When I get faster and even faster then that then I'll pre-register but until then I hit my marks stay on my
line and enjoy the race 8).

[jryer]

Why should someone who can't afford to make it to every event be penalized to the back of the grid because he doesn't have enough points from the events he couldn't attend. Pre-register is even worse because it has nothing to do with skill. I agree points is marginally better than pre-register, but lap times recorded during practice solves the problem, and is equitable for all.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

OK now what if one of the fast guys cant get out for practice due to issues beyond their control? Then what? What about people who dont have their transmitter on during practice or its on their other bike? Or what about people with 2 different class bikes that practice is together (ie Thunderbikes and lightweights)?

Seriously do you really want to have people out in practice trying to set record speeds when there may be some people who are trying to sort out an issue with their bike before the race? STart gridding by practice lap times, theres gonna be ALOT of red flags.