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light weight legal bike?

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lightweight

light weight legal bike?
« on: August 18, 2006, 04:57:14 pm »
Is it me, or does any one else feel that some bikes in light weight should not be allowed, like the new BMW's. Air cooled or not, they are just too big and fast for a light weight class. the new Moto-St series considers it a heavy weight twin. I think in CCS it should be at least a middle weight, not a light weight. how does anyone else feel
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Woofentino Pugrossi

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Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2006, 09:26:47 pm »
Well I dont think SV650's should be allowed in thunderbike since that replaced heavyweight sportsman which was mainly older bikes that couldnt run as well with the new bikes.
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Rob
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clutch

Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2006, 09:34:56 pm »
It sucks having to race Buell's.  I think they should be limited to Thunderbike and LWGP perhaps.   They shouldnt be in LWSS or SB.  100HP vs most ss sv's 73 - 77HP is dumb.  Feel the same about the BMW.  It may be big, but it still has HP advantage.  The new one definately shouldnt be a LW bike.
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clutch

Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2006, 09:36:01 pm »
Well I dont think SV650's should be allowed in thunderbike since that replaced heavyweight sportsman which was mainly older bikes that couldnt run as well with the new bikes.

Yeah, and now SV's have to compete against built to the gills BUELL's 115+ HP in Thunderbike
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Super Dave

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Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2006, 10:07:40 pm »
Well, the BMW doesn't make the power of a recent production 600 and doesn't it weigh about 150 pounds more than a 600?

And is there one rider that is capable of riding a BMW well?  Or is it just "the bike"...

Given what I know, it's a LW bike.  SV650's were faster than EX500's.  Wasn't a reason to make them middleweights.
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Super Dave

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SVbadguy

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Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2006, 10:09:59 pm »
Yes it sucks.  And my VFR750 isn't even legal for any of these classes mentioned (not until 3 years from now in Thunderbike), yet it has the worst power to weight ratio of just about anything.  Even my Ultralight Superbike DR650 has a better power to weight ratio.  If I could actually make a fluid-retaining bellypan I'd like to race it legally just for the hell of it, but not in the heavyweight or even middleweight classes.


With twins, which most lightweight are, the real advantage comes in torque not horsepower.   I think forming the classes based on a number that is an average of the torque and horsepower-to-weight ratios would make for the most competitive and fair racing.  Such a number is in parentheses below.

For the below specifications:
Manufacturer or commonly found dry weights.   Tested or manufacturer provided HP and torque figures (generally on the conservative side). 

BMW
419 lbs dry / 78 ft-lb =  5.37 lbs : 1 ft-lb
419 lbs dry / 101 HP  = 4.14 lbs : 1 HP   (4.755)


99-02 SV650
364 lbs dry / 43 ft-lb = 8.46 lbs : 1ft-lb
364 lbs dry / 68 HP   = 5.35 lbs : 1 HP  (6.905)


Buell XB9R
385 lbs dry /  70 ft-lb = 5.5 lbs : 1 ft-lb
385 lbs dry / 92 HP =  4.18 lbs : 1 HP      (4.84)


VFR750
465 lbs dry / 44ft-lb =  10.56 lbs : 1 ft-lb
465 lbs dry / 85 HP =   5.47 lbs : 1 HP     (5.515)

And for the hell of it.
GSXR600
355 lbs dry / 46ft-lb =  7.17 lbs : 1 ft-lb
355 lbs dry / 105 HP =  3.38 lbs : 1 HP  (5.275)


GSXR1000
370 lbs dry/ 75 ft-lb = 4.93 lbs : 1 ft-ln
370 lbs dry/ 160 HP = 2.3125 lbs : 1 HP     (3.62)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 10:13:05 pm by SVbadguy »
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Super Dave

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Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2006, 10:52:00 pm »

Seems like VFR 750's were successful at one time.

As for lightweights being twins...that changes with manufacturers designs.  FZR400's were the scat for a long time.  CB400F's come to mind also.

As for published ratios...

Who cares.  Weigh it and run it over the scales at the track in ASRA Thunderbike.



And 85HP for a VFR750?  Who's numbers are those?
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SVbadguy

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Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2006, 08:42:37 am »
Seems like VFR 750's were successful at one time.  As for lightweights being twins...that changes with manufacturers designs.  FZR400's were the scat for a long time.  CB400F's come to mind also.


I would love it if my VFR even remotely close to what Rainey, Shobert and Merkel were riding.
This isn't the '80s and '90s anymore.  At least here in the Mid-Atlantic almost everyone is on an SV or Buell.  Occassionally something else might show up but it is Ultralight legal.

85hp is what mine dynoed at after I replaced the California cams with 49-state ones.
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lightweight

Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2006, 12:03:06 pm »
I know the BMW rider that you mentioned and he is very fast, but come on, to lap some expert riders 2 times in one race like down at barber and AM's almost 3 times, you can see that the bike is just so much faster than most of the other light weights. I would also like to see some numbers from the BMW dyno run. Air cooled on newer bikes is not that much of a disadvantage. I have been told that the bmw was putting out 140hp, don't know if that is crank or wheel. I have nothing against the BMW's it just seems unfair to those other experts that are really fast but have a really hard time trying to catch him on that bike.
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ScubaSteve

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Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2006, 01:21:03 pm »

Ride faster!! Are ya going to complain about Ed hes on a sv and laps experts. I loved beating the buell guys on my sv.

Buells not in superbike come on thats a superbike class my sv made 98hp. Superbike is for modified bikes if its your choice to run a SS bike in it then so be it. I didnt mind running with the bmw and buells.
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Steve

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benprobst

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Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2006, 02:54:04 pm »
The BMW rider lapping AM's 3 times @ Barber? I got lapped by him once on the second to last lap in the solo GT race and that was after I had to come in for a stop and go.



Dang, i just bragged abuot getting lapped, but hey at least i have an excuse.


Technology is technology, sometimes it evolves faster than the rules. As for outlawing bikes I dont know about that. I mean how much faster is the SV650 than the EX500's and how about FZR400s, when the sv's came out they stomped these things but no one moved the sv into another class. Not to mention that where the Buell makes its ground on the straights I have never had any problem making that up in the corners. We sv guys may suffer a bit of horsepower loss but those big air cooled twins suffer in the corners. Im not saying there arent fast guys on those bikes and that the bikes are bad, it just seems its easier to go faster on the sv.
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Re: light weight legal bike?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2006, 05:44:17 pm »
. I would also like to see some numbers from the BMW dyno run. Air cooled on newer bikes is not that much of a disadvantage. I have been told that the bmw was putting out 140hp, don't know if that is crank or wheel.

We were told 101hp post qualifying by a crew member. Keep in mind that is a Factory Pro reading which is about 15% lower than a Dynojet reading...So about 116hp there.
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