07 Rules New Topics being discussed per the ROC mailer

[Racingxtc7]

Racing organizations maintain their operations through racers continually entering races. 

This is true BUT only because raceroad organazation have grown custom to putting ALL financial burden on the racers. Ever notice that at every single type of sporting event has advertisements of all shapes and sizing. CCS could sent out a promoter to sell the idea of advertising banners for around the race track, stickers and whatever else they can think of. There's a good chance that there is one RV dealership , one Trailer dealership, one Motocycle dealer, one Truck Accessory shop, one whatever local shop near each raceway that would be willing to pay for advertisement and even set up a booth, bring some new RVs to show off.

This new revenue could be the purse money, used to reduse entry fees or whatever.

GRIDDING- I like the idea of gridding based on lap times from practise. If someone is racing both a 500cc and a 1000cc bike, there laps times from the 500 will come from the lightweight practise while there lap times from the 1000 will come from there unlimited practise. Its a little more work and you'd probably not want the last prastice group be the first race, not that any of us would want that anyway.

NEW CLASSES- One class I really belive should start up again is the 250GP! There has been atless FOUR 250gp bikes at every CCS weekend(midwest) which is more than can be said for the ultra lightweight class. Plus, the class will grow quickly because some many people have them but refuse to race with CCS because to the lack of the class so they drive farther to go do an ahrma or wera event. On top of that there's people like myself that would love to race a 250gp bike but doesn't buy one because of the lack of the class.

Having the 25min GT races is great because is something different.
F40 races, you guys rock! It just as fast as the normal races.

[Super Dave]

Ok, work backwards from this...

The AMA doesn't promote their event.  Race tracks start by paying the AMA about a half million to show up, then they, the promoter - not the AMA,  spend more money on advertising and putting up those banners.  Then the people show up to see the show.

Burden on racers?

I still pay an entry fee for my AMA event, and i still pay the promoter a good sum for practice.  Oh, and the purse money for an AMA event is an utter joke.  Ever wonder why you don't see a guy like Robbie Jensen racing a lot of AMA events?  He can make more money racing club level contingency races.

Going out and getting sponsors to adorn the track with banners would cost money.  And getting people to see the banners would take advertising dollars that would increase costs.  And look around the local club paddock.  Is it up to par? 

Even then, I would prefer that spectators come to see me, not a banner.  I'm sure that spectators at Road Atlanta were there to see Mat Mladin, not Makita banners.


250 GP already exists in lightweight grand Prix.

[Racingxtc7]

250 GP already exists in lightweight grand Prix.

You should probably get out and ride a GP machine because its NO! fun what so ever racing against bikes that 10mph slower than you in the corners then 20mph faster than you in the straight. they gap you just enough so you can't get them on the braking, if you do make up the difference then you usually catch them by the apex, losing all corner speed, try the outside, they move over on you, go to the inside and they out motor you coming off the corner. The last LWGP race I spent the entire race stuck behind some 3-4sec slower squid because he kept moving across the track under brakes, or I'd be completely next him and him just turn in on top of me making me slam on the brakes. I show up every weekend for just one race 125GP, the ONLY race there isn't big heavy slow cornering designed for pubic highway motorcycles.

[Super Dave]

I used to own and race a 250 GP bike.

As for speed differentials, etc...

That's classically known as racing.

A 250GP bike should be competitive against 600's.  Enter Middleweight Grand Prix.

[CounterSteerer]

You should probably get out and ride a GP machine because its NO! fun what so ever racing against bikes that 10mph slower than you in the corners then 20mph faster than you in the straight. they gap you just enough so you can't get them on the braking, if you do make up the difference then you usually catch them by the apex, losing all corner speed, try the outside, they move over on you, go to the inside and they out motor you coming off the corner. The last LWGP race I spent the entire race stuck behind some 3-4sec slower squid because he kept moving across the track under brakes, or I'd be completely next him and him just turn in on top of me making me slam on the brakes. I show up every weekend for just one race 125GP, the ONLY race there isn't big heavy slow cornering designed for pubic highway motorcycles.

Someone should tell STEVE WENNER he is not supposed to win all those GP races on his 250 and he is usually in the top 5 in GT Lights and that is on a 125.  If the motorcycles you race against now are big heavy slow motorcycles designed for public highway roads you want those replaced with faster more agile 250 bikes so you can be more competitive?

[Racingxtc7]

250GP class would make many of the "REGULAR" racers who are at "EVERY" race weekend happy. HHHMMMM, wasn't there someone who was just saying how its important to keep the racers who attend every event HAPPY because they are the ones that support CCS. Not too mention that would be one more class that the 125gp bikes would be legal for and I'm sure most would sign up for.

Whats the problem?
Don't like more revenue?
Too much pager work?
Is it against the Flagger's Union too wave the flag one more time?

[StuartV666]

Because the 750's are already allowed to race alongside the 600's. 

Don't you mean 600s are allowed in this 750 class?

I've always been of the opinion that if you're gonna race, buy a bike to race, not try to make a bike fit into a new class or change everything for unique conditions.
[snip]
If testosterone is a problem, because I've seen older riders do goofy things in their first (or second or third) season of racing, then track days might be a better option.  Racing IS about competition still.  When I'm tired of that, then I'll stay home and mow the lawn.  Less testosterone.

It seems to me that this logic yields the inevitable conclusion that there shouldn't a F40 class at all. If you don't follow that, then please explain to me what the purpose is in having a F40 class when there is already a class with the same rules, but no age restriction.

[Super Dave]

250GP class would make many of the "REGULAR" racers who are at "EVERY" race weekend happy. HHHMMMM, wasn't there someone who was just saying how its important to keep the racers who attend every event HAPPY because they are the ones that support CCS. Not too mention that would be one more class that the 125gp bikes would be legal for and I'm sure most would sign up for.

Whats the problem?
Don't like more revenue?
Too much pager work?
Is it against the Flagger's Union too wave the flag one more time?

I guess I'm trying to understand why you'd add a 250GP class when there is already a lightweight grand prix class. 

It's basically the same as adding a 600 Supersport class when there is already a middleweight supersport class.

And adding classes?  I say eliminate all superbike classes, period, so that there is more valuable race time.  Races were longer at one time.  There was more practice too. 

[Super Dave]

Don't you mean 600s are allowed in this 750 class?

No, I mean that F40 is still predominately entered by guys over 40 on 600's.  And the 750's are allowed.  Add the 1000's and the class structure and entry habits become different in that format, 600 to 1000 production fours.

It seems to me that this logic yields the inevitable conclusion that there shouldn't a F40 class at all. If you don't follow that, then please explain to me what the purpose is in having a F40 class when there is already a class with the same rules, but no age restriction.

I'll agree with that. 

Why not have a powder puff class for the ladies?  A class for riders that are far sighted?  Over 50?  Develop a class.  Your birthday is in November?  Here's a class.

I think the current development of new classes to...

I'm not sure what it does.  Formula 40 is for older riders that want another class to compete in?  I suppose.  To get away from the guys with all the test?  Well, then the F40 riders wouldn't be in other races then, I guess.  So, it takes time from the whole program.  Again, reducing practice time, shortening races. 

I love motorcycle racing.  But it's painful to wade through all the tons and tons of classes.  AHRMA has done the same thing.  I don't see them building things up because of that. 

[d_dog]

Yeah, let the 1k bikes in F40.  The fast guys will be fast anyway, regardless of what they ride.  On the other had, I can't ride a 750 yet, now I can ride a 1000?  Oh well, if I'm gonna ass-pack somebody, why not do it faster 

Amen Brother.    

[Racingxtc7]

I guess I'm trying to understand why you'd add a 250GP class when there is already a lightweight grand prix class. 

For the same reasons there is a world 250GP, a USGPRU 250GP, use to be a AMA 250GP.  World 250GP bikes and world 600 supersport run the same lap times but do you see them combining the classes? NO. Why? because its about having bike of the same ability (handling,weight,power) all together in there own race.

If you wanted to eliminate classes, what about unlimited GP? when was the last time you seen a MotoGP bike as a CCS event?

Definition to GP motorcycle- Limited quantity or custom designed only for race purpose.

[Super Dave]

For the same reasons there is a world 250GP, a USGPRU 250GP, use to be a AMA 250GP.  World 250GP bikes and world 600 supersport run the same lap times but do you see them combining the classes? NO. Why? because its about having bike of the same ability (handling,weight,power) all together in there own race.

Intesting idea, but the reality is that the rights to each of those classes is owned by different companies.  It's about entertainment.  When the 250cc GP motors go away, apparently they are to be replaced by production based 600 motors in aftermarket chassis.

But this is club racing.

If you wanted to eliminate classes, what about unlimited GP? when was the last time you seen a MotoGP bike as a CCS event?

I think that last time I saw one was in the late 90's or the early 00's.  ROC Yamaha.  But the reason why it was Unlimited Grand Prix was that it allowed those guys on 250 GP bikes someplace to race...which is what your looking for, right?

I'd eliminate Unlimted Superbike.  It's a new class anyway.  But that's a whole separate topic.

Definition to GP motorcycle- Limited quantity or custom designed only for race purpose.

And anything below.

Formula 1 was still raced in the AMA until 1986, and 500cc two stroke GP bikes raced against some production based superbikes.

Again, Grand Prix just means that there are no rules for production based machines.  They don't have to be street bikes.  Superbike is production street bike Grand Prix.  So, eliminate the Superbike races in CCS, move it all into Grand Prix, and race the 250 like it's supposed to be raced...going as fast as a production 600 Supersport bike as you even recognize.