07 Rules New Topics being discussed per the ROC mailer

[Super Dave]

My suggestion is:

- eliminate MW Superbike. With MW GP, why do we need MW Superbike?
- eliminate UL Superbike. Again, with UL GP and UL SS, what is the point of this class?
- change F40 to allow the following classes: MW GP, HW Superbike, UL Supersport, SuperTwins

Agreed on the first two.

The third, I struggle with.

If you allow big bikes, the larger number of entries will be reduced in F40, so I have been told.  Seems reasonable too.  What about making another class of F40 of bigger bikes that run with that same class?  F40 with MWSS, HWSS and a F40 Ultra with MWGP, HWSB, and all Unlimiteds?

[Team_Serpent]

Rules suggestions?  Eliminate classes, lengthen races, increase costs to cover the lengthened distance, and eliminate the "double bump"...double bump being a 600 running in the unlimited class. 

This was the topic of discussion over the weekend.  Thoughts?

If you can be competitive on a 600 in Unlimited GP why shouldn't 600's be allowed?  Why do we need to eliminate the double bump?

I can sorta buy into the elimination of a class or two to allow a bit more practice for the guys that can't make it out friday but to be honest I think the current schedule works pretty well.

[Team_Serpent]

If you allow big bikes, the larger number of entries will be reduced in F40, so I have been told.  Seems reasonable too. 

Why would bigger bikes reduce the number of entries?  I must have missed that post/reasoning.

What about making another class of F40 of bigger bikes that run with that same class?  F40 with MWSS, HWSS and a F40 Ultra with MWGP, HWSB, and all Unlimiteds?

I really don't believe we need to segment that class any further.  Here's the thing - and when you turn 40 and start running this class you'll probably be in agreement - This class is for guys who love to race, the majority aren't willing or don't want to take the kind of risks they have in the past to be ultra competitive, so most are just happy to race with guys who are at their pace and they can trust to ride clean.  The majority are also very much "into" their machinery - they're racing bikes they love.  It's almost like a run what you brung type deal so let the guys who want to ride vintage ride and let the guys who want to ride modern 1000's ride.  I'm not sure why everyone is so worried about 1000's killing this class, the class is not just about who wins it's about who is out there still kick'n ass and having a blast after 40!


   

[Super Dave]

If you can be competitive on a 600 in Unlimited GP why shouldn't 600's be allowed?  Why do we need to eliminate the double bump?

I can sorta buy into the elimination of a class or two to allow a bit more practice for the guys that can't make it out friday but to be honest I think the current schedule works pretty well.

Someone raised the issue at the track Saturday.  I didn't originate the idea.

[Super Dave]

Why would bigger bikes reduce the number of entries?  I must have missed that post/reasoning.

There have been some vocal F40 riders that have said that they didn't want bigger bikes in the race as they feel fine racing 600's against 1000's.  This is what I have been told.  If the 1000's are allowed to be in it, which would likely be a minority, an amount of smaller bikes would most likely leave reducing entry numbers.

I really don't believe we need to segment that class any further.  Here's the thing - and when you turn 40 and start running this class you'll probably be in agreement - This class is for guys who love to race, the majority aren't willing or don't want to take the kind of risks they have in the past to be ultra competitive, so most are just happy to race with guys who are at their pace and they can trust to ride clean.  The majority are also very much "into" their machinery - they're racing bikes they love.  It's almost like a run what you brung type deal so let the guys who want to ride vintage ride and let the guys who want to ride modern 1000's ride.  I'm not sure why everyone is so worried about 1000's killing this class, the class is not just about who wins it's about who is out there still kick'n ass and having a blast after 40!

I don't know if I'll want to race in F40.  Maybe it's just me, but I like to focus on some classes and race against the fastest guys at the track.  Sometimes, yes, some of those guys are in F40.


   
[/quote]

[Team_Serpent]

There have been some vocal F40 riders that have said that they didn't want bigger bikes in the race as they feel fine racing 600's against 1000's. 

Huh? I've read this a couple of times and still don't understand what you're trying to say.  They are vocal about bigger bikes being in but feel fine about racing 600's against 1000's? 

I don't know if I'll want to race in F40.  Maybe it's just me, but I like to focus on some classes and race against the fastest guys at the track.  Sometimes, yes, some of those guys are in F40.

Whatever 

[Jeff]

How about the viable suggestion of making an actual FORMULA out of the "F" in F-40?  Bike age + rider age = 40, you're good.  So if I, being 35, wanted to race an 2001 F4I in F40, it would be acceptable.  Don't some race orgs do that?

[ahastings]

I don't believe adding 1000s will reduce the numbers in F-40, since CCS already has a LW F-40 for the small bikes. WERA allows 1000s under SS rules and everything else under SB rules. I had a 1000 last year and was all for it, I don't have a 1000 now and I am still for adding them because it will only add a couple more riders , but sometimes we are that close to contingency numbers.

[StuartV666]

If you allow big bikes, the larger number of entries will be reduced in F40, so I have been told.

I've heard that, too. But not from anybody who actually runs in the class. My friends that run it do so on 600s and they will keep doing it if 1000s are allowed. I have always raced 600s, until I got this latest bike, and I have looked forward to running in F40, and I would do so whether I was on a 600 or not. I ran Unlimited classes on my 600s before, lots of times.

In fact, I'd say the only reason there aren't already way more 600s in the current Unlimited classes is simply because there are SO many other classes they can run in. I think somebody posted that there are 11 classes a 600 Supersport bike can run in(?). Yeah, no big surprise most 600 guys run less than 8 or 9 races a weekend and so you don't see them in any Unlimited classes.

So, how about some actual empirical data to back up that statement (from whoever made it - since you have just been "told" it)?

I wasn't at VIR, so I have just been "told" what transpired on this subject and the gist of what I got was that Kevin's answer was that he'd allow 1000s "if you can get all the current riders to say that they'll keep running it, even with 1000s allowed". Is that a fair translation? (Does being "told" it make it true?) If so, is that really the job of the riders? To go and get input and consensus from the other riders?

And, as I have said before, why do we really need to spend a bunch of time doing what my dad calls mental masturbation on this anyway? WERA used to have basically the same formula and they have now added 1000 Superstock (equivalent to CCS Supersport) to the class. Mongo has, so far, not responded to my questions about how that actually affected the class, but maybe somebody else can say? I mean, why do we need to do a bunch of what-ifs when we have hard data we can look at?

I'll bet WERA didn't suffer any significant drop in class size when they added 1000s to their F40, and I bet CCS won't either.

[jryer]

I'll bet WERA didn't suffer any significant drop in class size when they added 1000s to their F40, and I bet CCS won't either.

this is an excellent point. 1000s are NOT going to hurt F40, but do exactly the opposite. WERA has already prove it!

[Racingxtc7]

hhmmmm. unlimited, middlewieght and light +40 all ran at the sametime, gridded in that order, scored seperately. all the +40 racers on the track at the same time, pick your poisen.

[Racingxtc7]

lightwieght supersport
middlewieght supersport
unlimited supersport

lightwieght superbike
middlewieght superbike
unlimited superbike

lightwieght GP
middlewieght GP
unlimited GP

lightwieght +40
middlewieght +40
unlimited +40

GTL
GTO
GTU

125GP
250GP

vinatge/ultralightwieght

classes for everyone