07 Rules New Topics being discussed per the ROC mailer

[jryer]

As it is 600's (4cyc LiqCool) machines have 11 opportunities to race compared to 1000's which only have 4 opportunities (Formula 40 included). Taking away unlimited superbike just make matters even worse for those that like running 1000's. If you want to take something away take away a few 600 classes since the entire day is littered with 600 opportunites already. I know already people are going to disagree but it just my 2 cents. Here's the skinny taken from the rule book.

Middleweight SuperSport - 600
Heavyweight SuperSport - 600
Unlimited SuperSport - 600, 1000
Middleweight Superbike - 600
Heavyweight Superbike - 600
Unlimited Superbike - 600, 1000
Middleweight Grandprix - 600
Unlimited Grandprix - 600, 1000
GTO - 600, 1000
GTU - 600
Formula 40 - 600

[StuartV666]

+1 

[Super Dave]

As it is 600's (4cyc LiqCool) machines have 11 opportunities to race compared to 1000's which only have 4 opportunities (Formula 40 included). Taking away unlimited superbike just make matters even worse for those that like running 1000's. If you want to take something away take away a few 600 classes since the entire day is littered with 600 opportunites already. I know already people are going to disagree but it just my 2 cents. Here's the skinny taken from the rule book.

Middleweight SuperSport - 600
Heavyweight SuperSport - 600
Unlimited SuperSport - 600, 1000
Middleweight Superbike - 600
Heavyweight Superbike - 600
Unlimited Superbike - 600, 1000
Middleweight Grandprix - 600
Unlimited Grandprix - 600, 1000
GTO - 600, 1000
GTU - 600
Formula 40 - 600

What's your point?  Should a person that races an exclusive bike, a 1000 inline four, be entitled to more classes than a more popular racing bike?  Classes that can't be filled?  Classes that need to be filled by smaller displacement bikes to make them viable?

[251am]

 Enough of the "exclusive bike" crap. If you race, you race.  The "exclusive" idea should be tossed right out the fucking window.     at the wheel. The only true exclusive classes are Formula 40 where age is the excluding factor.


jryer- There's a small contingent here in CCS who believe I-4 liter bikes are too big, tracks are not big enough for them, and you don't know how to ride one anyway. I'm not one of them. Unfortunately, this small contingent directs Ft. Worth. However, I agree that most MW tracks are better suited for 600s, it just aint right that I-4 1000s only have about 4 classes to run which are also more expensive classes.

  Back to the original IDEA that I-4 1000s be added to a current class. Was that idea lost? I hope not. I am willing to bet that in the next 5 years the 40+yo demographic will be growing, in the paddock anyway and not just in their middle sections, and that another reason for them to stick around a little longer might be such an option.      

[jryer]

What's your point?

i thought it was clear, but to re-iterate the point: 600cc bikes have more opportunities
to race than 1000cc bikes so eliminate some 600s.

Should a person that races an exclusive bike, a 1000 inline four, be entitled to more classes than a more popular racing bike?

"exclusive" is of course an opinion that not everybody shares.
i never said the 1000cc bikes should be entitled to more classes.
i did say don't eliminate the existing Unlimited Superbike because there are only 4
opportunities compared to 11 for the 600s. the math is simple:
600s have nearly 3 times the opportunity to race on race day than 1000s.
listen i like 600s also, but don't take away what little
opportunities currently exist for 1000s. i see a lot of redundancy on race day
in middleweight & heavyweight supersport and especially in middleweight & heavyweight
superbike. with some well thought ingenuity we could eliminate/combine either
the middleweights or heavyweights and still keep everybody happy.
maybe in heavyweight supersport move the twin cylinder liquid cooled 1000cc
to unlimited supersport. move the 4 cylinder liquid cooled 775cc to middleweight
supersport and do away with heavyweight. do the same thing in superbike.
at the moment i don't have the solution really worked out but it's possible.

Classes that can't be filled?

this is irrelevant because i never suggested additional classes for 1000's

Classes that need to be filled by smaller displacement bikes to make them viable?

this is also irrelevant because i never suggested additional classes for 1000's
(but since you mentioned it. the heavyweight class is filled mostly with 600s.
according to you that class is being made viable by smaller displacement bikes.
so i assume you'd approve of eliminating heavyweight then, yes?)

[Super Dave]

Do you have a suggestion?



As for CCS listening to me...

I've made two rules proposals.  One was to get a vintage bike to fit in a particular class.  That class eventuall changed.  The other was to change the fuel rules as the way the previous rules were written, gasoline as purchased from a gas station was not legal.

[251am]

[/quote]

Do you have a suggestion?

Yeah, the guy was simply thinking out loud, making a suggestion to Ft. Worth, displaying a pretty good point about the 600 class options (11) heavily outweigh the 1000 I-4 options (4). Most of us here pretty much know YOU will NEVER race an inline 4 1000cc bike. That is YOUR choice. However, there are OTHER PEOPLE who would like to and they are 40 years old, or older. Leave the guy alone is my suggestion!!   

[Super Dave]

Most of us here pretty much know YOU will NEVER race an inline 4 1000cc bike. That is YOUR choice. However, there are OTHER PEOPLE who would like to and they are 40 years old, or older. Leave the guy alone is my suggestion!!   

Well, I have had the disucussion about racing a 1000 cc four vocally, so I don't know how you're qualified to know what I'd do at all.

As for forty...it's coming close to me, so, it's relavant.

Exclusivity.  There are more 600's sold than 1000's.  1000's cost more than 750's, 600's, and most other bikes. 

One must also recognize a few things about what has happened nationally in club racing for a long time.  First, 600 riders have made up a huge number of entries.  For years, amateurs were not even allowed to ride 1000 or 1100 cc four cylinder motorcycles.

Eleven opportunities to race a 600?  Yeah, it's a lot.  Is it too many?  In the context that I believe there are too many classes?  Completely.

Rules suggestions?  Eliminate classes, lengthen races, increase costs to cover the lengthened distance, and eliminate the "double bump"...double bump being a 600 running in the unlimited class. 

This was the topic of discussion over the weekend.  Thoughts?

[StuartV666]

My suggestion is:

- eliminate MW Superbike. With MW GP, why do we need MW Superbike?
- eliminate UL Superbike. Again, with UL GP and UL SS, what is the point of this class?
- change F40 to allow the following classes: MW GP, HW Superbike, UL Supersport, SuperTwins

Naturally, since I currently have a 1000 to race, it would be nice for me, personally, to keep UL Superbike. And it could be argued that since everybody from 600s on up can race in it, keeping it has the most beneft because it gives the most people an additional opportunity to race. However, I also realize that I have a bias, so I would be more than willing to sacrifiice that in the interest of getting a reasonable schedule with few enough races to afford quality practice time, and to get a chance to race with the rest of the (non-LW) 40-year olds.

[StuartV666]

Oh, and I see no reason to not allow 600s in UL classes. What's the point in that? It's demonstrated every race weekend that they can do it competitively and safely, so why not allow it?

[251am]

Well, I have had the disucussion about racing a 1000 cc four vocally, so I don't know how you're qualified to know what I'd do at all.

As for forty...it's coming close to me, so, it's relavant.

Exclusivity.  There are more 600's sold than 1000's.  1000's cost more than 750's, 600's, and most other bikes. 

One must also recognize a few things about what has happened nationally in club racing for a long time.  First, 600 riders have made up a huge number of entries.  For years, amateurs were not even allowed to ride 1000 or 1100 cc four cylinder motorcycles.

Eleven opportunities to race a 600?  Yeah, it's a lot.  Is it too many?  In the context that I believe there are too many classes?  Completely.

Rules suggestions?  Eliminate classes, lengthen races, increase costs to cover the lengthened distance, and eliminate the "double bump"...double bump being a 600 running in the unlimited class. 

This was the topic of discussion over the weekend.  Thoughts?

I only qualify myself as having read your other posts on I-4 1000s, that's it. I remember you saying it was a consideration for this last bike purchased, but you chose another 600. That's fine. It is your decision. I just remember our first crossing here when it first came known I was going from a BMW R1100GS to a GSXR 1000 and the proverbial dogs were sicked on me! 

  Eliminating classes to lengthen races would be great, but who would hold the knife to make the cuts and what considerations would be made fo the suddenly excluded?

  This is an interesting time. It could be a crossroads for a better series. I understand where you stand in the past rules and regs about amateurs per not being able to run 1000/1100s, but that is momentarily relevant and irrelevant at the same time. There are so many damn tangents to look at it is a maze. Unfortunately, it is also a business.

  The business aspect must be looked at 1st and foremost to try and secure the future and integrity of the sport, but must also create a return for the owners. So, secondly, the integrity of the sport must be upheld in some fashion that also upholds point #1. I have looked over A LOT of the results from the different series' publishings in RRW and the array of different formats is boggling. How does CMRA fit a 4 hour endurance race into a sprint weeeknd? And on and on...

   1000s in F40 HW or an UNL format? Why not? Until there's a meeting of many racers' minds with Kevin in some sort of a weekend meeting, pack in another!!     

[jryer]

666 -

I like the GP structure (it doesn't have heavyweights). Keep both
Unlimited Superbike and F40. Make the supersport and superbike same as the
Grand Prix structure (no heavyweights). The bikes in heavyweight class can
go to middleweight or unlimited depending on the bike. What you think?