Which would be a better race bike?

[gkotlin]

I have a 1999 F4.
I would run it with stock suspension
I have a 520 conversion with sprockets
I may add a jet kit

I want to buy or trade the F4 in on:
2001 Ducati 748
It would also be stock suspension
I would convert chain and sprockets
It has fuel injection so I think I could run a power commander in stock classes?

Any input or other suggestions?

I'm just starting racing, so I'm very green and both bikes are probably well beyond my capabilities.  I have monster 620.  I like wrenching on the Ducati's more than the Honda.  Everything just seems easier to work on and get to.

Thanks

[Mark Bernard]

Buell.... But I may be a bit bias!

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

A Suzuki SV650 is the perfect first racebike.

[Burt Munro]

Both bikes would create challenges to race....  the F4 because of newer bikes being more capable in the classes you would be racing in.....  the Ducati because of the cost/availability of parts.  

Both bikes might present problems at the track if you break something.  There would be a very limited possibility that someone else might have spares that you could borrow/buy.

Any thought of selling the F4 and buying a bike already setup for the track?  Race plastic, suspension. exhaust, 520's, etc. can become a bargain when you buy a bike that someone already setup.  If you've got an idea what you could sell the F4 for in street trim you might be surprised how much of a race bike you could buy.  Especially if your F4 has value because of a good title that many race bikes won't have.

Your coming up on the time of the year when a lot of people are starting to think about selling their race bikes because they're getting out or starting to get ready for next year.  

You could have lots of options available depending on how set you are in what you want to race.

Just my .02 cents 8)

[catman]

The SV usually wins the bangperbuck//lap-per-bucks contest if all goes normally-good advice here to sell honda and buy a prepped sv in the next 3-5 mos-lotsa stuff available/lots of 99-02 older/but IMO better engines in mostly stock form- I spent alot more on building a "00" sv than what i could have spent on buyin one already done - the proof is in my garage-a second sv with much more technology/capability :thumb:K3 was my salesman on the second try!Took a lil help to get it from Chicago to Daytona to Victory Gardens NJ,but in my first ride July 1 i got my first trophies with it ,whats that worth? Better view on future racing! (when i can get away from family business!) Good luck sell honda soon and start lookin for an SV-- john in nj

[Super Dave]

748's are pretty cool.  But some of the parts for the engine can have a shorter life span.  A 996 makes decend power, when compared to a decent, more current 600.

I'm not a huge F4, F4i, RR fan, but the F4 isn't a bad bike.  Yeah, it doesn't make as much power as an RR, but class lap times don't drop substantially year to year because of all the technological sales that manufacturers give us.

Stock suspension will leave you limited, though, on the post F3 Honda's as it seemed that Honda began to focus more on their 600's being street bikes that could be converted though suspension component replacement to give it the proper geometry to give good feedback.  You just can't ride around that stuff, unless everyone has that same bike and they are limited to not changine those components.

SV's are great alternatives, and you'll save money by using less tires.

[gkotlin]

I guess that is my dilema.  I've always loved the Ducati 7**-9** bikes.  I would love to have a 998.
I have the F4 and it's paid for.  The F4 needs a jet kit and full exhaust and some suspension work to be a good race bike.

I could sell the F4 and put a few more bucks in and buy someones bike at the end of this season.
Such as:
I could get the SV.
I could get a Yamaha R6.
I've always been a Honda fan, I could get the RR
GSXR's seem very solid the last few years.

There are just to many choices.

Can you change fork internals and rear shocks and run in the stock class?
Would the F4 be acceptable with those mods?

To many questions.
Not enough knowledge
To little money
Way to much time.

Whats a guy to do.

Thanks for the input.  Keep the info coming.

[Jason748]

I have a 748 that I use for the street & mostly track days, but I race a 600rr. So I've done a fair amount of work on both, here's my take.

The 748:
The good; Unlike days of old, parts are not that expensive (in some cases less than the equivalent Honda parts), and are actually very easy to get especially if you e-bay.  If you want to go buck wild you can even shell out for Corse parts and actually get them, try that with HRC .  The suspension is top notch, stock brakes are above average, the chassis is wonderful.  Out of the box the 748 is definitely a better "race' bike than a F4, no question, hands down.
Now the bad; You have to, no questions asked, get it serviced much more often and at a reputable service shop, this is not cheap.  You can't go, just one more race or one more track day and stretch it.  You'll be in a world of hurt if you do.  But when correctly & timely serviced they are bullet proof (or at least mine has been).  Here in the Midwest there really aren't many people who run them, so finding spares at the track is a crap shoot at best.  But go some where like LRRS or WSMC and they run rampit, it's easy to find parts at the track.

The CBR:
The good;  Part are easy to get, but surprisingly are the same price or even more than the 748.  The motor is bullet proof, odds are you'll probably never have to really tear into it.  The chassis is good, but not great, the brakes are good.  Overall it's typical Honda, a good solid bike, you really can't go wrong.
The bad;  It's getting on in age so not many people race them, but a few.  You'll have better luck finding spare at the track than the 748, but not that much better.  The suspension is not good as stock, unless you weight about 150, at the min you'd really need to get it re-sprung for your weight.

As far was wrenching on them, the 748 is much harder than your monster, but better than the F4.

BUT, like just about everyone else is telling you, get a race prepped SV650, it's one of the best starter "race" bikes out there,  much better than either the 748 or the F4.

[Jason748]

oh, BTW if your going to be at the Blackhawk Nesba on sept 2-3, drop by I'll be there.

[gkotlin]

Thanks Jason.  I'm really torn.  I've always wanted a Ducati.  In building the monster, I've found what you have found.  There are more used honda parts out there.  But more people need them and they the prices don't change much.  The Ducati's have less parts available per model.  But Ducati uses a lot of the same parts on their bikes.  I have forks from a 748 on the monster, the front wheel is from a 748, the brake calipers and rotors are the same as well.  I even have a 748 upper fairing and clipons on the monster.  The ducati's come with the things i've added to the honda, like braided lines etc.

Maybe I just need to get another job.  Have an SV, a 748 and 600 racer.

What kind of maintenance are you referring to on the Ducati?  I know about oil changes, valve adjustments are more critical I think, and belts?

I will more than likely be at blackhawk.  I hope to see you there.  Costlyduc on the Nesba boards is usually at most midwest events as well.  He has a yellow 748.

I've talked with Aaron in NC a few times about Duc stuff, so I know we're in the minority here in the midwest, but the Ducati's have a strong following in other areas.

[Jason748]

I have forks from a 748 on the monster, the front wheel is from a 748, the brake calipers and rotors are the same as well.  I even have a 748 upper fairing and clipons on the monster.  The ducati's come with the things i've added to the honda, like braided lines etc.

Sound's like you should be considering racing the Monster

You could end up with a grarge like mine, at last look it's got a CBR600RR, 748, SV650, RM125 & a 1960 Ducati 200SS....

What kind of maintenance are you referring to on the Ducati?  I know about oil changes, valve adjustments are more critical I think, and belts?

Basicially if you race one, your pretty much going to have to 1/2 the regular mantaince sechdule, so your looking at belts, valve adj's (at the correct clearence for racing) & rocker arm checks every year, and the weak part of the 748/916/996 is the valve collets, it's almost manditory to replace them with collets (half-rings) from MBP.  But after installing the MBP collets I've never had a valve out of adjustment since.  When they go bad they will take out a valve and possibly worse 
Shoot me an e-mail I and can give you a couple of names (shops) to talk to that specialize in racing ducs in the midwest that I fully trust.

[gkotlin]

Thanks very much.  I will keep that in mind.  I'm making an offer on the Duc.  We'll see where that goes.

See you at Blackhawk.