How/Why? Race expense justification.

[imafrogg420]

racing...it is what it is. Ive been riding bikes since I was four years old. if i havnt got sick of it in 19 years im pritty sure ill be doing it for the rest of my life. but dont let it be a burden its supposed to be fun. instead of runnign for points just race when you got the cash saved up do every other race or what not. and what dave said about switching it up couldnt be any truer. and going to dirt is one way to switch things up. i went from dirt bikes to road race bikes to fourwheelers to street bikes and who knows whats next. just dont let it burden you we all do it cus we love riding and the people we do it with soo rock on!!!!

Jim

[Super Dave]

I say give all the payout to the Expert Class. And charge them double  the entry fee to race as well. That would make it fair, no?

I completely agree with the extra charge for expert events, but I'd like fewer classes too.

[Super Dave]

I didn't say it was bad for the AMA guys to come and earn contingency in CCS Expert,  I just find it odd that the people that are saying that Amateurs should not get contingency are saying that it is bad for the AMA guys to come and steal their contingency. Kind of a having your cake and eating it too syndrome.

I'll reply a bit just based on some ideas that I've got after a couple years of this.

You have good points, Paul.

I would have to say that there was a little less stupid stuff going on when there wasn't so much contingency in the amateur ranks.  Riders were a bit more apt to try and get home safely rather than trying to get a bunch, or some, contingency money with a move that shows where their skill runs out.  I can understand where you're coming from.  But you are also bright enough to have chosen a lightweight bike to race.  I started on a GSXR750, and there are now a good number of racers that start on faster 600's and even 1000's. 

[Super Dave]

[
So this would mean that once you are moved from CCS Amateur to Expert you are ready for the AMA grids? No, as you stated you need to earn a certain point requirement to apply for an AMA license. Therefore, CCS Expert is a learning ground to get the experience one needs to move on to the AMA, theoretically.

Theoretically, yeah.  No qualifying in CCS anymore.  So, that isn't a help.  Even some riders with enough points and years of experience aren't ready for the AMA.  Even if you get the license, you still have to qualify at the AMA race too.  Dirt track racing might be a better way to prepare a rider for the idea that not working on riding techniques and the set up will leave you, well, not racing when you don't make the cut during a heat or semi.  Going home is a good motivator.

But a rider with an AMA Pro Road Racing license is an expert.

[Scotty Ryan]

I think that this thread got a bit off topic - but I will comment a little... So after a year from when this thread was started - I still feel the same as I did then... I love racing for everything that it is - even all the BS.... I say that having to justifying why - just means that you have other things in your present situation that are more important - take care of what matters most to you and everything will fall into place..

To comment on the contingency situation - and don't take what I am saying wrong - but I feel that Amateurs should get some sort of contingency, but not enough so that they should want to stay in the Amateur ranks because of it...Isn't the goal for every racer to make it to an Expert - or further??? Maybe that's just the way I think tho... Policing of who runs amateur is really up to the club that runs the series or race - and maybe should be looked at a bit closer...

Fewer classes overall would be good - qualifying within a certain timed percentage for A Pro-Expert class, with a higher entrance fee and a good payout would certainly get the local expert more accustomed to the reality of what an AMA race is really like(You make the show or you pack up) And none of this Six lap crap - I mean this class would be a mileage distance - so each track would be different - more laps at Blackhawk - less at Road America - lets say 30 miles..... 

Fewer classes means more time for longer races - for everyone - even with a Pro-Expert race that takes 30 min out of the day.... Wow what a great idea - think about it, you pay a little more for the class - but get more laps per race... I would be all over that - I don't know about you guys/girls, but a six lap race at Blackhawk is pretty short....

Anyway - just some thoughts before I go to bed here..

See everyone at Blackhawk in two weeks - Should be fun 

[r1owner]

See everyone at Blackhawk in two weeks - Should be fun 

Great!  An AMA rider coming to cherry pick us little ole CCS racers!

[Gixxerblade]

I completely agree with the extra charge for expert events, but I'd like fewer classes too.

CCS already does charge twice for Expert events and has fewer classes. Its called A.S.R.A.

[HAWK]

To comment on the contingency situation - and don't take what I am saying wrong - but I feel that Amateurs should get some sort of contingency, but not enough so that they should want to stay in the Amateur ranks because of it...Isn't the goal for every racer to make it to an Expert - or further??? Maybe that's just the way I think tho... Policing of who runs amateur is really up to the club that runs the series or race - and maybe should be looked at a bit closer...

Fewer classes overall would be good - qualifying within a certain timed percentage for A Pro-Expert class, with a higher entrance fee and a good payout would certainly get the local expert more accustomed to the reality of what an AMA race is really like(You make the show or you pack up) And none of this Six lap crap - I mean this class would be a mileage distance - so each track would be different - more laps at Blackhawk - less at Road America - lets say 30 miles..... 

Fewer classes means more time for longer races - for everyone - even with a Pro-Expert race that takes 30 min out of the day.... Wow what a great idea - think about it, you pay a little more for the class - but get more laps per race... I would be all over that - I don't know about you guys/girls, but a six lap race at Blackhawk is pretty short....

Many of the contingency payouts are half for the amateur field right now and I agree with that but not the elimination of amateur contingency.

The problem with reducing the number of classes in the club racing arena is that you now have to get the latest and greatest equipment in order to have a chance at  a finish that will give you any satisfaction and reason to come back. The classes on the chopping block are the ones that support the older equipment or the combination of 2 and 4 stroke machines. This will send the owners of the older bikes packing which is I'm sure the reason organizations have not done this. Furthermore the reason that many want less classes is to make the races longer. Last year was my first year racing, I have ridden motorcycles on the street for 25 years and I could not finish a GT race at the begining of the season, if you make the races longer then your first timers are going to come out once and say to themselves "Whoa". Currently club racing organizations are bemoaning the growth of track day organizations and the drain it is putting on the coffers, you don't fix that situation by making it more difficult to make the jump.

[dmikey34]

Starting off with looking for a simple relief on the wallet would be the first thing. How about the venue letting racer and one person with them in the gate for free....you never go racing alone right? When I go racing i bring a wife and three boys. So for the price of them watching me race I give up three races...the venue gets the concessions thats for sure.
But what do I know, I am just counting down for those days of formula forty.....

[catman]

But what do I know, I am just counting down for those days of formula forty.....


Cherry pickin the most educated and still racinging, Grecian formula group? 

[Super Dave]

Starting off with looking for a simple relief on the wallet would be the first thing. How about the venue letting racer and one person with them in the gate for free....you never go racing alone right? When I go racing i bring a wife and three boys. So for the price of them watching me race I give up three races...the venue gets the concessions thats for sure.
But what do I know, I am just counting down for those days of formula forty.....

Yeah, I think everyone wants that in some form or another.

But...

Being a racer or a crew member has and implication of risk.  Therefore, the purchase of a gate pass by racers covers the cost of insurance and also shows an entrants' recognition of some of those risks that they signed for. 

As an example, some have dual duties at an event.  One might change tires at an event as a vendor or something.  Sometimes a vendor fee will cover the cost of vendor access, but it doesn't cover the cost of the insurance for a racer or a competitor crew member. 

[Court Jester]

just popped into my head.
if a person signs a form that says we don't hold anything against the track owners and their parents and blah blah blah... what is their insurance for besides the normal fire, earth quake, and stuff like that???
i guess someone could find something to sue anyone for now days. but was is the main insurance concern?