F@@@@KK @@h Track day CRAP

[dylanfan53]

Aw crap.  I probably should have passed on that post, but I felt bad for a fellow racer whose cost went up $100 and got shoved aside by the public riders so I didn't think he should have to apologize for pointing it out, that's all.

I think I've done three NESBA days IIRC.  I had a very positive experience at each one so there's no criticism of NESBA at all.  The days were well organized, track coaches were great and I'll do more, etc., etc.  

Look...here's my perspective and then I'll quit.  It's getting crowded out there.  I think that's a fact.  Heck, it used to be (at Gingerman, for instance) that you'd get a call from the track or some friends that the track would be open on such and such a day and you'd go out to play.  Now it's a commercial thing and I'm whining about it, along with some others.  I admit that because it was a lot more fun before.

At BHF the Friday practices are great for the racers to get some time in before a packed race weekend with limited practice to work on setup, etc. I know I'd hate to see the cost of that go from $80, or whatever it is now, to $175+.  Of course, the track orgs will charge what the market will bear, and you're entitled to that.  I'll pay it when I need or want to ride bad enough.

I don't know what you meant by racer friendly, but I think it's fair to throw out the suggestion for a discount for racers if you're making that claim. Can't blame a guy for trying...I never got my free t-shirt.   :)

[badmonkey]

If NESBA is overcharging then why are so many of the track days sold out far in advance?

street squids....

[grasshopper]

I'll play devils advocate.

The same thing is happening at RA this weekend.

NESBA has the track Wednesday Thursday. Races start Friday

The race track is also making more money by having NESBA there correct?

When does the track make more money, when LP or a private track day provider comes in and organizes a track day/race practice or when NESBA or STT come in and organize a track day?

I'm asking questions here, which sound like they should make sense. I have no internal knowings of how these business transactions work.

75 dollar practice days do kick ass though.

I think we are royally spoiled at Blackhawk by that. I'm not complaining at all.

[SliderPhoto]

What has the weather been like the past few years at the CCS events at Road America?

Was CCS going to rent the track and provide a practice day before the races?

If you owned a track day organization, would you take the gamble of renting an expensive track like Road America in April?

What happens when you rent a track and you have very light turnout?

When you own a track, what is the expense involved in doing your own track day for racers?

Those are just some of the questions I ask myself. It seems that a lot of people always see the glass half empty.

[Super Dave]

Hmmm....

Blackhawk practice days for racers are now becoming more crowded with riders that have aquired a racing license only to participate in racer practice days...

That will be the next issue:  how will practice day providers separate racers that are racing in the weekend events from those that only "hold" a racing license to participate in racing practice.

There was a time when track days didn't exist.  The only way one rode on a race track was to go out and road race.  

Individuals and groups started organizations and businesses that opened up opportunities for riders and themselves for non racers to ride in a controled environment...and for a company or individual profit.

First, recognize that profit can be a good thing.  And often one doesn't have it all the time.  You need to make a profit today to pay for the days that one doesn't make enough to cover expenses.

In my opinion, track days have changed racing.  Some track day providers now compete for premium weekend spots that racing organizations once filled.  And it seems that they do seek premium dates in close proximity to specific events.  Additionally, individuals that might have raced because it was the only opportunity to ride on a race track, now don't have to go and get that racing license to be on a track.  That has diminished some of the revenue that racing organizations have had avaiable for administration of various things.

So, the organizations have had to try to attract more riders though having more and more classes.

Even in the early 90's, I had riders that would come to more than one of my CCS riding schools just so they could ride the track and not race.

In the competition for regular riders, track days have taken riders from racing.  My opinion.  

I haven't seen a regular influx of riders coming from track days to racing.  It's all a bit one sided toward the track day providers.  Which is too bad for racers and race providers.

On the benefit side, I think because there are more "track" riders, track day or racing, the cottage industries like bodywork, various supplies, etc. have become a bit more competitive and there are more options.  Sharkskinz have not gone up substantially in forever, and there are other alternatives.  Additionally, if you sell your race bike, there are more customers available to sell it to...rather than just racers.

Mel, I understand your pain.  

[Super Dave]

The race track is also making more money by having NESBA there correct?

When does the track make more money, when LP or a private track day provider comes in and organizes a track day/race practice or when NESBA or STT come in and organize a track day?
 

I'm with Jack...

CCS is renting the track for three days.  They have a rate for those weekend dates and insurance for racing.

NESBA is renting two weekend dates for track riding and the insurance for that type of activity.  

Yeah, the track is making their money, but they also have upgrades, repaving, security, etc.  

If the track doesn't rent those days, well, then the store's closed now isn't it.  

RA hasn't made a huge commitment like NESBA, CCS, STT, etc.  They commit to the AMA National because they know they can make money.  BFR commits to motorcycles because they have a long and good history with motorcyciists...track days, racing, practice...

Even when some ride pit bikes like idiots...LOL!

When does the track make more money?  Might be when the sell the land to become condo's or a big subdivision.  Honestly, the contracts vary, but what does it really matter.

There's probably more money to be made with any event that has a weekend date.

[dsting]

The ridiculous part of this whole thing is blaming a track day org for reserving a day offered to them by the track.  If anyone is to blame, it's CCS, MARRC, LP, etc for not scheduling the pratice day to support the racers.  But, I don't see a ****** race org crap thread.  Go figure.

As far as track days selling out, we all know we have to register early 'cause tracks like Summit Main always sell out.  This nothing new.  Just like pre-reg to get a good grid spot, gotta plan ahead.  As for individuals "over-charging" for re-selling a track day, that's simple market supply-demand (though most folks sell at face value believe it or not).  Deal with it or plan ahead to get a spot at the original price.  Better to buy early and re-sell if needed, right?

[SVbadguy]

As far as Summit Point making money off motorcycle racing and trackdays, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the money it's making off federal government contracts for the law enforcement driving and shooting courses.   That's part of the reason there are more race tracks rather than an improved Main course.  
A complete regrade and repave sure would be nice though.  Dream over  :(

[EmerWil]

The ridiculous part of this whole thing is blaming a track day org for reserving a day offered to them by the track.  If anyone is to blame, it's CCS, MARRC, LP, etc for not scheduling the pratice day to support the racers.  But, I don't see a ****** race org crap thread.  Go figure.

As far as track days selling out, we all know we have to register early 'cause tracks like Summit Main always sell out.  This nothing new.  Just like pre-reg to get a good grid spot, gotta plan ahead.  As for individuals "over-charging" for re-selling a track day, that's simple market supply-demand (though most folks sell at face value believe it or not).  Deal with it or plan ahead to get a spot at the original price.  Better to buy early and re-sell if needed, right?

MARRC was offered two days by Summit Point and we took both days.

[smoke]

If NESBA is overcharging then why are so many of the track days sold out far in advance?

Arnie (sp)   Its not NESBA that is over charging.  

[Simon]

As far as I know MARRC took every practice day we were allowed to get. Which was two!

[Mongo]

Amazing.  It's everyone elses fault they're not putting on a practice day for racers?  What kind of silly shit is that?  

If practice days at Summit are such a wonderful idea then rent the track and do it yourself.  Oh yeah - make sure you only charge $75 too.....