SV vs. TZ Question

[TZ_Boy]

Yes Brian, Mr. Elliot is delusional about racing 250's in the CCS.  We can all speculate about Rich Oliver and company and what they can do with TZ's but the reality in club racing is that a TZ and SV are a good matchup and 600's are faster.  I researched the results nationally for Am\EX GTU results and found that out of 120 races there were 0 250 wins and there were only 9 top five finishes, 1 was Jason Disalvo and a few others were low entry's.  This clearly shows that 600's are faster than 250's at the club level.  Mr. Elliot also sites that allowing 250's into GTL's would destroy 125's in this class because they are currently winning 25% of the races.  There are only 1 or 2 250's racing in a class I don't know how this could severly affect the outcome of any race.  As far as 125's winning 1/4 of GTL's races I didn't do the research but I didn't see that happening in the Mid-west.  Yes you will always have the rare case at a small track with a superior rider on a 250 or 125 that can overcome and win but this should not set the standard.

[Roach]

Err... no offense, but a good 250 rider is going to suck the paint of any SV. Or actually, better to say that with equally skilled riders the TZ wins.

The first time Brian K got on my TZ at VIR he was down into the :32's, and I have a '93 chassis with a '96 motor (well tuned, but not exactly new equipment). I think Dave's (yakov) best time on his SV at VIR is in the :34's or :35's?

If you look at the big boys, Oliver set the poll at a high :28 and the top-5 AMA 250 guys were all at :30 or less - this would be competative in the 600ss race!

I am only a half-decent rider, and my best lap there is a high :36 - I couldn't come close to that on an SV.

- Roach

[TZ_Boy]

TZ's do not suck the paint off of SV's especially built ones which there seems to be alot of.  As far as comparing Rich Olivers times to club level racing is irrelevant.  Comparing Brian's times to Dave's or yours is also meaningless.  The results don't lie take a look at LGP results, SV's win races in this class.

[TZDeSioux]

If you look at the big boys, Oliver set the poll at a high :28 and the top-5 AMA 250 guys were all at :30 or less - this would be competative in the 600ss race!

The top 5 AMA 250 guys were all at 30 or less. Where were the rest of the guys? Perhaps off by about 10 seconds? Remember Oliver and the top 5 guys all qualified between 2:16-2:22 at Road America. Where were the rest of the guys? 2:30's?  ::)  That sure would be competitive in the 600 race.  ::)

Paul,
hey if you need a 98 tail section.. I've got 2 for sale... for you cheap cheap cheap

[TZ_Boy]

Sorry Brian but I am to poor, trying to get some money together for entry fees.  I probably will run on the same crank this year!  Does this mean I have to race with one finger covering the clutch all year. :'(

[chris_chops]

I don't think the tz's that we see at blackhawk are as powerful as the ama bikes in the top five.  Except for Rev. Brian's, he told me his makes 91 h.p. on racing fuel derived from drippings off of wuytak's stinky leathers.  Now he has a new bike and wuytak is up to 115 cans of red bull a day.  Hey superdave, I think you are about to see a tz250 doing really well at blackhawk next year.  Go Brian!!!!!

[TZ_Boy]

Amen, apples and oranges. ;D  As far as the Rev. goes don't let him fool you he is aiming for gold next year and his bike will be fast.

[TZDeSioux]

Sorry Brian but I am to poor, trying to get some money together for entry fees.  I probably will run on the same crank this year!  Does this mean I have to race with one finger covering the clutch all year. :'(

Paul,
Don't do it. You have to rebuild your crank. If your crank goes.. it's going to tear up your cases, cylinders, heads and everything in between. Save yourself the headache and additional $$. Save up and get it rebuilt.

[TZDeSioux]

I don't think the tz's that we see at blackhawk are as powerful as the ama bikes in the top five.  Except for Rev. Brian's, he told me his makes 91 h.p. on racing fuel derived from drippings off of wuytak's stinky leathers.  Now he has a new bike and wuytak is up to 115 cans of red bull a day.  Hey superdave, I think you are about to see a tz250 doing really well at blackhawk next year.  Go Brian!!!!!

What's a good lap time for a TZ at blackhawk? 17's? 16's?

[Super Dave]

It should be faster than that.  I would expect 13's to 15's just like a 600.

Apples to apples. Fast TZ at an AMA National vs Supersport at AMA National.  Pretty close.  It should be that way at the Regional lever.

But the GP bike enthusiasm isn't around like it was about ten years ago.  And conversely, Yamaha used to offer contingency money for TZ250's back then too.  So, the regional guys looking for money migrated to the production bikes.

Personally, I know a couple of 250 tuners.  They don't do it much anymore.  But I don't see anyone doing anything like what they did at regional races.  Everyone runs WAAAAAY rich and that's good for them.  For what they are doing, they would be better off on an SV.  Rev, I haven't watched you work on your 250, so I don't know what to say to you.

But the 250's should be going faster at our local regional races, period.

[TZ_Boy]

17's is the fastest that I have seen and this managed a fourth in LGP.  As far as 13's I doubt it but I am sure the Rev. will let you try Dave on his new steed, what are you doing on a 600?  As far as apples my TZ is as close to Oliver's as a CCS GSXR750 is to Miladan's Superbike.

[Roach]

TZ's do not suck the paint off of SV's especially built ones which there seems to be alot of.  As far as comparing Rich Olivers times to club level racing is irrelevant.  Comparing Brian's times to Dave's or yours is also meaningless.  The results don't lie take a look at LGP results, SV's win races in this class.

So, because there aren't talented riders on 250s racing againt SVs, that makes the SV a more capable bike? Me thinks that's warped logic :)

Classification at the club level is based on the machine's capability, not the rider's. They try and group bikes together that, even when ridden at their limits, are competative with each other.

If you let 250s into GTL (or WERA LW Solo 20), a good 250 rider is more than capable of running away with it. That's what they're trying to avoid.  

- Roach