Opinions on First Bike/Classes

Started by FastBoy, December 23, 2002, 08:42:53 AM

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FastBoy

Okay, now I'm really confused. There is a lot of good valid points discussed here. What to do? What to do?

QuoteOh ya, the people I know call the 600 class the "helicopter class" cause that is the class it seems the helicopter always has to be called in for! (not funny, but fitting).

Ummm, trying to make me feel better about the 600 class? How'd you know I always wanted to ride in a helicopter? Oh.....you mean like that!? Yikes!

QuoteBut you have to push the front, and corner harder on a 600, increasing the chance of get-offs respectively.  
I know 600 guys who seem like they are wrecking at least once a weekend.  

Hadn't looked at it that way before. So do they use Bell Jet Rangers, Huey UH-1 or Sikorskis?  :-/

EX#996

Get an SV....

You qualify for the lightweight classes, but it still has enough torque to pull your rear end around.  My husband ran a 600 his first year racing but now runs and SV.

There are enough SV's out there that you should be able to pick one up rather reasonable.  Also, if you don't super bike them, they are pretty much bullet proof.

Dawn   :)
Paul and Dawn Buxton

EX#996

Quote;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Oh man.  Christmas is over.  Can we PLEASE go racing now!

Stop it!  

I am suffering from race withdrawal they way it is.....

Planning the races that we are going to attend - making a list for the motor home - trying to squirrel away as much money as we can....

Is is April yet?   :-[

Dawn
Paul and Dawn Buxton

GPgofast

QuoteThat was kinda my thinking too. The FI on the newer bikes is so smooth that throttle transitions are much easier. Not like the on/off of yesteryear's bikes. I believe they are referring to the excess speeds, gyroscopic forces and wieght which will cause you to brake harder and trail brake more.

I too am looking around for a 600 and have already made contact with a few owners. I'm going to be pissed if I turn faster lap times on my liter bike.

I thought it would be better to ride against faster riders in smaller classes(15-20 riders) like the GT and open SS than against 40-50 riders of all ability levels. It may be different where you are but that's about the size of the classes around here.

Kinda like playing golf, tennis,basketball etc. Playing against someone better than you will make you a better player.

Here is my experience after 5 race weekends. I started on a salvage title 600 F4i. Not even close to the best platform to build a race bike on, but the price was right and the local Honda dealer is very supportive of club racers. This fact alone influenced my decision more than any other aspect.  The beauty of riding a 600 is you can race it in a LOT of races. If you don't want to race against the kids in the 600 classes-DON'T, race up a class or 2 untill you are comfortable with the bigger grids!!! As far as "faster" riders riding big bikes-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! There will be just as many bad riders riding big bikes as 600's(percentage wise anyway) and in my experience first year racers on liter bikes are some of the WORST riders on the grids. People with big egos tend to crash higher. The #1 most important aspect of learning to race is track time and you don't get quality race experience sitting in the pits on your pretty G1K Superbike.  The top finishers in CCS Pacific and Southwest in the Ameteur Unlimited races were NOT on Liter bikes. I can only think of 1 or two times this season that a guy on a 600 didn't win the ULGP race and that was when Kane started racing a 750 toward the end of the year. The BEST and FASTEST amateurs are on SV's and 600's(at least in the west).  One of my friends started racing last year on an SV after riding a Gixxer 1000 at track. Granted, he improved greatly, but on a stock motored SV he was lapping 3 seconds a lap faster at Thunderhill than he was the season before on his G1K. I personally improved my lap times over 14 seconds a lap going from an RC51 to my F4i. If you plan on never wrecking your bike and having it PRISTINE at the end of a years racing, you are in the wrong sport. You will wreck your bike, 95 out of 100 guys do. I only know 1 superfast guy that doesn't have the occasional get off(he has wrecked 2 times in 6 seasons 1 time he got taken out and the other time he had a mechanical on a borrowed bike), most fast guys will crash a few times a year if they are lucky and some fast guys crash every weekend. You really need to buy a bike that you can ride a LOT and a liter bike with Superbike parts is not one of them. And about getting protested, the size of your grid will limit the amount of people that can protest you but I would imagine if you were beating someone regularly in SS you would get protested with an Ohlins front end.

sdiver68

Hey Speedie...

Agree with what you said...except both of your example people are running 600's this year!

True dat, someone who is fast will be fast regardless....

As for being protested, if you finish in the top 3 in ULSS you will be sent to tech immediately following the race.  No competitor has to lodge an official protest, the Ohlins would be kind of hard to miss!


MCRA Race School Instructor

rmahr137

maybe I have hit my head too many times, but wasn't it just a couple years back that you couldn't race an unlimited bike if you were an amateur?  This would take care of all these questions.  It would be interesting to see if the number of crashes rose or decreased after this rule was taken away.

BC61

QuoteBut you have to push the front, and corner harder on a 600, increasing the chance of get-offs respectively.

 ???  Doesn't make sense if you are pushing the 750-1k to the limits.  ::)

FastBoy

I checked and there is still an AM UL SS class which I would qualify for. Not to cheat or anything because my bike already has R&T forks but I don't think I will be going to post race tech (podium finish) any time soon.

I see what your saying about racing up with a 600. I hadn't thought of that option since I was focused on my liter bike. I like that better than racing AM SS every weekend. Some tracks could probably handle it better than others but it would be nice to stay away from the carnage from time to time. I'm okay going down. I've done that on the street. I just don't want 30 riders running over me after I dump it in T1 because someone forgot to turn and used me as an auxillary brake system.

dave333

QuoteSo do they use Bell Jet Rangers, Huey UH-1 or Sikorskis?  :-/


Depends on what they need to get your carcass airborne.  How much do you weigh?

oldguy

Well of course they call it the "helicopter" class. That's where all the experts send the newbies to race. It only makes sense it is going to be the scene of the most carnage.
What's the HP/Weight ratio of an SV compared to an RC51? I don't think the RC comes near the HP of the 954/Gix 1K. Hey FastBoy, maybe we should start on Pocketbikes and work our way up? :o
Here's an interesting idea; start the same thread on WERA and see what the answers are there! Oooohhh, sorry, I said a bad word!
Happy New Year

khanson

The only place a liter bike for an amateur is going to make them any faster is Road America and Daytona.  Even Road America is questionable with a good 600 rider.  Monte Nichols was turning 2:20's on a 107 hp R6.  Few CCS racers can do that on any size bike.  At Blackhawk and other race tracks the bigger the bike the more work it is to get around the track. Larry Denning can smoke anybody on his R6 against any size bike.

A 600 or SV will require much less effort to ride fast.  At blackhawk, you may lose 3 bike lengths from turn 7 to turn 1  compared to a 750.  A lot of guys make that up by the end of turn 1!  Regardless of the weight comparisons, a 1000 will be harder to turn because of the larger reciprocating mass of the crankshaft. That's why magnesium wheels make a difference over stock on turn in for faster riders.

Example:  I know people who started racing on 750's.  They don't progress as fast as other riders because they rely on the hp too much to get them around people.  Thus a person who starts on a smaller bike, learns how to ring the bikes neck out without wadding themselves up as much.  

When it comes time to move up to a big bike, they instantly go fast because they have the mechanics of racing down.
Kevin Hanson<br /><br />www.SafetyFirstRacing.com<br />Safety First Racing<br />847.357.1309

BC61

QuoteHere's an interesting idea; start the same thread on WERA and see what the answers are there!

WERA makes it an easy argument. Nothing bigger than a 750 class bike for novice/amatuer. Even then everyone will say the same thing, start with a 600 or smaller.