Opinions on First Bike/Classes

[sdiver68]

Experts don't race amateurs  ;)

Didn't you see me new icon???  ;D

[ccs354]

You have many more options to race with a 600 or a lightweight bike.  A 1000 cc four limits you to just a few classes.  Track time is the key to learning.

You will be much better off with a smaller bike.  I'm sure you think you are fast, but it is a whole different ballgame when you get on the track.  

A GSXR 1000 can spit you off in a heartbeat and yes, it hurts.  Fixing a bike and yourself can cause you to miss alot of weekends.  

I'm not sure if you really wanted to get advice, but if you listen to what the people are saying, you will think again about your ride.  

[Dawn]

Didn't you see me new icon???  ;D

Ya know...  It's not all that clear.  And after looking at it for a while, I'm not sure I really want to know what the picture is.

Dawn   ;)

[Baltobuell]

 You'll have fun whatever you ride, but a big bike will never scoot around corners like a lightweight. So it will be harder to judge your improvement and may encourage you to over do it and crash trying to keep up with them. BE AWARE OF THAT REALITY. The other consideration is tires toasting faster than your wallet can refill. Lightweight bikes are alot cheaper to maintain.

[ecumike]

Yea.. definitely start on the 250-600 bikes. I did a few track days on a ZX-7, then decided to ditch street riding, sold it and got my priller 250... no joke.. the first session I rode on the 250, I turned faster laps than the ZX-7.  

LW bikes make you learn how to get around the track using skill, not horsepower.  Learn the technique then learn the horsepower.... Technique is transferrable from bike to bike, however, HP is not!

A non-related example is like.. back in elementary school soccer, when I played for FPYC, we had this kid Ryan, who grew up on a farm, and grew up kicking soccer balls barefoot.  He was pretty good at it,.. so when he put on a pair of shoes and played.. he was insane. I've never in my life seen someone kick the ball as hard as he could.

[Dawn]

I do have to say though that I have never felt comfortable on a 600. I like feeling like a small rider on a big bike rather than vice versa. To me comfort equates to confidence.

 

My husband is 6'4" and 230 lbs.  One of his first bikes was an FZR400 and the other was a ZX-6.

http://www.sliderphoto.com/bin/photos.asp?Racer=996&Event=090801

The following year he moved up to an SV

http://www.sliderphoto.com/bin/photos.asp?Racer=996&Event=080202

As you can see, he looks pretty big on both, but he will tell you he learned more on the Fizzer and the SV on how to go fast verses the ZX-6.

Dawn   ;)

P.S.  By the way, his street bike is a 'busa because that is the only bike big enough to fit him comfortably.

[FastBoy]

How does he get comfortable on a 600 then? Every 600 I've ridden makes me feel like I'm sitting "on top" of it instead of "in" it. It feels awkward and that doesn't encourage me to ride aggresively.

Two other things I'm considering here:
1. Won't the rules for CCS/WERA change in a year or so and follow AMA in opening up more classes to I4 1000cc bikes?

2. Why when liter bikes are only 15-20 lbs heavier now and the frame geometry is similar as well are the literbikes so much more difficult to brake and turn in? I know about the larger crank mass and gyroscopic force and all that but the cranks on the 1000c aren't spinning up as much and thw wheels and brakes aren't too far off now either. Is it just the extra speed you're carrying from turn to turn?

Okay, have it....

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

I'm not exactly a lightweight. I'm around 250lbs (football player) so I was concerned about riding SV's and 600 as I would be at a significant disadvantage riding against some of my 160lb counterparts.

When I first started racing, I was the baddest street rider you've ever seen.  My street ride (until I sold it to feed my racing crack habbit) was a very non-stock ZX11.  I could wheelie it for miles, and drag my knee around off-ramps.  For years, every vacation had been spent in the North Georgia mountains, and I had several Keith Code schools under my belt.  I was very selective about who I would ride with, because people were always crashing trying to keep up with me.  Boy, was I in for a reality check when I started racing!
I began competing four years ago, at 300 lbs, on an EX500.  On the EX500, I was the fastest guy in my rider's school, even against liter bikes.  It would be three years later before I earned my first trophy.  (Suprise!  I sucked!)  By my third season, I had dieted down to 250 lbs, and was riding an FZR400.  
The fourth season, I built the 400 into a 560cc superbike.  I was down to 230 lbs.  Everyone said the 12 year old FZR was no match for 700cc, 100hp SVs, but it was what I could afford.  I faced riders who weighed as little as 105 lbs.  The result of my fourth season was forty trophies, including three wins, and six regional championships.  After all I've done in lightweight, (Including a 5th at the Daytona race of champions) I am moving to expert this year.  Finally, I have bought a 600.
We've got a guy named Billy Casper who makes me look slim.  He kicks major bootie on an old F2.  Another fat boy champion.  Desire and talent win races.  Big guys can kick it, because we're agressive and used to surviving most of the punishment that comes our way.  Little guys get nervious about trying to take corners away from our huge, solid @$$es.  You'll do well, but remember this.  Most guys who start on big bikes don't stay long.  Those who do usually sell the big one and get something smaller the second year.  
Don't sell yourself short because you are large, and don't start on a big bike. You won't learn anything except how to destroy tires, and how to highside.  An SV or a 600 is the way.
  I crewed for Mark Junge of Vesrah Suzuki for a while.  He ran his 750 GSXR in the unlimited races, when there was a perfectly good GSXR1000 sitting right next to it.  He only used the 1000 for endurance, because he felt the motor didn't have to work as hard as the 750 with a full tank of gas.  He said that the smaller bike was faster everywhere except Road America.
You'll make your own choice.  Either way, good luck and welcome to racing!
K3

[FullMoonRacing]

"it ain't the meat, it's the motion"
You can have all the meat/horsepower you want but it won't make you faster unless you learn to ride.  ccs354 said it already: there are many more classes for 600s and lightweights and track time really IS the key to learning to go fast!  Best piece of hardware you'll take to the track is YOU.  Improve THAT first.

Way big horsepower can even be a detriment to learning, newbies often use it as a crutch.  It is often seen that they will stand on it down a straight to make up time but park it in the corners.  

You, yourself, indicated that the average liter bike is just as small as a 600, yet you decline to ride a 600 because it's too small: "you sit on top instead of in it".  'splain dat one, Lucy!

[FastBoy]

No I said they have similar frame geometries and weigh only a few pounds more. Ergos are quite different. Shorter, smaller  tank, shorter reach to bars, etc.

This is good feedback though. Keep it coming.

[Dawn]

No I said they have similar frame geometries and weigh only a few pounds more. Ergos are quite different. Shorter, smaller  tank, shorter reach to bars, etc.

This is good feedback though. Keep it coming.

Specs on GSXR-600

Overall Length: 2040mm (80.3 in.)
Overall Width: 715mm (28.1 in.)
Overall Height: 1135mm (44.6 in.)
Seat Height: 830mm (32.7 in.)
Ground Clearance: 130mm (5.1 in.)
Wheelbase: 1400mm (55.1 in.)
Dry Weight: 163kg (359 lbs.) 164kg (361 lbs.) CA. model
________________________________________________

GSXR-750

Overall Length: 2040mm (80.3 in.)
Overall Width: 715mm (28.1 in.)
Overall Height: 1135mm (44.7 in.)
Seat Height: 830mm (32.7 in.)
Ground Clearance: 130mm (5.1 in.)
Wheelbase: 1410mm (55.5 in.)
Dry Weight: 166kg (365 lbs.) 167kg (368 lbs.) CA. Model
_________________________________________________

GSXR-1000

Overall Length: 2045mm (80.5 in.)
Overall Width: 715mm (28.1 in.)
Overall Height: 1135mm (44.6 in.)
Seat Height: 830mm (32.3 in.)
Ground Clearance: 130mm (5.1 in.)
Wheelbase: 1410mm (55.5 in.)
Dry Weight: 168 kg (370 lbs.)
__________________________________________________

If you're talking new bikes, the ergo's are all about the same.  

Dawn  

[Thingy]

I was going to point out the same thing about the GSX-Rs.  A GSX-R 600 should not feel much different than your 1000.  However, I do know what you mean about sitting 'on top' of the bike as opposed to 'in' the bike.  I enjoy feeling 'in' the bike as well, like you do on a ZX-7 or my current bike, a '00 GSXR-750.  

However, I will say this: I did not feel the difference as much when I was racing the F2.  I don't know why, but it was not as bad as when I was on the street.  There could be a couple of factors to this.
1)  You are moving around on the bike alot more and hanging off of it.  So, you spend less time 'perched' on top of it.
2)  The geometry of a race bike is radically different than a street bike.  You can lower the Clip-Ons a little to make it feel better, etc.  On my GSX-R, the front end is lowered about 12mm and the rear is jacked up about 13mm.  I also have rearsets on the bike that are located 1 inch further back and 1 inch higher.  My point is that you can't totally compare how bikes feel when they are 'streetbikes'.