need some advice on SharkSkinz on other stuff.

[Decreasing_Dave]

However, a bike that works better is easier to control more consistently at a faster pace.

So, terror that some riders have going a certain lap time can be eliminated with some changes.  Stock suspension is LIMITED.  The components really don't move enough fluid.  The spring RATES are usually incorrect.  And how the bike carries itself geometrically just isn't right.  Making the bike a bit better in the geometry department will make a great difference.

I can really mess up a bike's stock suspension to help a rider understand some of that, but you really can't make it the way it should be.  

You can buy the correct springs, but then you still don't have the ability to change the rear ride height.  And we're back to that moving fluid thing again.

I hate to tell someone that they have to spend money, but it's better to understand a bit more about the suspension now, rather than struggle over it later.

S. Dave, this brings up a question.  I have what I believe to be a totally stock suspension in my R6.  I ran 2 different tracks last year, Vegas and Firebird.  Vegas is pretty smooth, it was my first race, and all I did was set up the suspension a little stiffer than what was called for in the shop manual (plus very little tweeking).  I didn't have ANY issues with the suspension at Vegas or Firebird (Firebird's a lot bumpier).

Could it be that as a street rider, having to deal with a "general" set-up to meet the needs of every road, that I'm just not as sensitive to having to have a perfect suspension set-up??  Or did I just get lucky??


Signed,
"That wasn't me chattering off turn 6"

D. Dave

[Super Dave]

Ya know, the R6 is just pretty forgiving.  I think, because the swingarm angle is so long, it is not as sensative at some of the other bikes.

No one ever crashed because of too little dampening.  So, a little tweaking?

Can you tell me EXACTLY what you did?  

[Decreasing_Dave]

Well, I'll try, but it was a couple fo months ago.  Yes I took notes, but they're not handy right now.

I took the stock settings as they are in the shop manual.  I then added 2 to the preload both front and rear. Rear =2 "ramps"  Front = 2 lines

Knowing that this will cause much more rebound, I added some rebound dampening (ie. 3 clicks each end)  The compression, I think I just bumped up 1 click on each end.

I went racing.

When I got to Vegas, I was in the line at Tech with another R6 in front of me, an expert.  I noticed that when he got off of his bike, that he had substantially more sag than I did.  After tech, I went back and dropped the preload 1 each front and rear.  I left the rebound, because even with dropping the preload, the bike fell good on static tests (ie. balanced, not springing back obnoctiously fast)

I know that to someone like yourself, that this whole process probably sounds very Mickey Mouse.  Again, I'm just a fast street rider.  I only had to get my suspension close, up until now.  

I need to get myself one of them edjumakasions.

Thanks for the help,
D. Dave

[Decreasing_Dave]

Hey S. Dave, one more thing.

I just bought a set of RaceTech .95 front springs.  I weigh about 200 with gear, give or take a few.

I understand that the R6 has some serious rebound dampening issues.  Can this be cured, or at least, treated with a lighter weight fork oil??

If so, what would you recommend?

Thanks again,  I wish I was closer to your region so that I could take advantage of your school.  Do you teach spelling and grammer, 'cuz I apparently suck at them too. :D :D

D. Dave

[Super Dave]

Thanks again,  I wish I was closer to your region so that I could take advantage of your school.  Do you teach spelling and grammer, 'cuz I apparently suck at them too. :D :D

D. Dave

LOL!

Wow!  .95's is all they recommend for 2 bills?  I think I ran .95's in my ZX6R, but I was about 160.  

The rebound thing is because of this needle valve inside that is shaped like a peg, not a needle.  It just blows.  

The way you have it set up, it sounds like you have no free sag, if you're having to put in dampening to slow it down.

The spring rate never changes when you preload anything;  the ride height just changes.  It doesn't make the shock longer, but it can prevent some full travel in the back.  It kind of makes it a little spring bound where the suspension has a hard time traveling the full distance while it's compressed.  

So, that can keep the GEOMETRY of the motorcycle in a "better" place.

Everyone seems to have an idea on how much sag a bike needs to have.  Unfortunately, if the geometry of the bike is stock, the weight bais is probably all wrong, so setting up the sag "correctly" won't give it good feel.  The R6 isn't so bad because the long swingarm allows it to carry much of the weight forward anyway, when compared to other bikes.

A suspended race bike can have the length of the shock altered so that the geometry is better.  Then the correct springs can be added, then the correct sag.  So, what you were probably seeing was more sag than you because of those changes.

If you were adding a bunch of rebound at the back, you've probably got the bike over preloaded.  The spring is overcoming the dampening.  

None of what you're doing is "right", but I've done the same things to some bikes to try to achieve better geometry so that the rider could get a better feel for the bike.  It does make it stop better, turn better, and all to a certain point.  An ultra fast guy would begin to complain, and you probably do also.  It probably feels like there is just something that is not right.

That sound right?

[Decreasing_Dave]

WOW!!!  WHAT A MESS!!!

It sounds about right.

Maybe I'll just remove the suspension and install struts on both ends.  Then I can complain about the tires.  At least I have a clue about them!!

As for the .95s, I went off of the charts.  It actually said that the .95s were a little heavy for me.  I guess I'll see.

The fork oil that is recomended in the manual is "01" .  What is that comparable to??

Thanks again,
D. Dave

[Super Dave]

01 oil?  IDUNNO.  What's that?  

The trick with stock suspension is that the valving doesn't move enough fluid.  That's why Traxxion Dynamics and Race Tech have those little thingies.  

Someone makes a better spring.  I'd try Traxxion or maybe Hyperpro, the Shock company.   They have lots of different springs, etc.  Might be worth trying.

[Decreasing_Dave]

Thanks for all of your help. :)

D. Dave