Should I request to stay AM

[johnny scheff]

   I am not planning on requesting to stay AM,  although I am a bit nervous.  I have only competed in 7 race weekends so I was suprised to learn that I had the points to bump.  I always do 4 races a weekend, that probably helped.  At my pace (consistent 1:21's at B H F on my stock motored SV650)  I assume that I will be a rolling chicane out there.  I am comfortable being passed and I am very comfortable on my bike.  I haven't raced much but I did about 5000 miles of track days and schools before I raced.  My question is,  at that pace,  am I too slow? Any feedback from experienced LW experts would be greatly apprecciated. Thanks - Johnny

[SVbadguy]

I don't know how your times compare because I've never been to BHF.

But you have far more track experience than I did when I moved to expert.  I had five races in '97.  Between then and '03 I did a few trackdays.  I started racing again late in '03.  Did two double points weekends of three or four races per and went expert in '04.  Just do it.

[VCS Racing]

I'm wondering the same thing. I competed in all but two CCS FL weekends, 4 races each. I managed to get a 3rd, 4th and a 5th in some HWSS races but other than that I was a mid-pack racer in the MW races.

I'm 40 years old, twice as old and twice as heavy as alot of the guys that I race against. If I'm doing this for fun, not to progress to the AMA, why should I move up?

[Speedballer347]

When I raced WER-A back in highschool, there was no contingencies in am.....so EVERYONE wanted desperatly to get a white plate.  They even had a real PRODUCTION class (stock pipe, etc...tires shocks, and brake lines)
Anyway, White plate meant "you have arrived"
I got a white after a couple of weekends and it was the best thing since sliced bread.  Now w/ amatuer lotteries, I moved up kicking and screaming :'(

Amatuer racing is all about easy money.  Pull the plug on amateur contingencies, and you will never hear another word or question about getting moved up.
Personally, I think they should dump am contingencies, since 'amatuer' is such a skewed term now anyway.  There aint no real amateur pocketing all that loot.
IMHO, there is no such thing as a fast amatuer anyway....not anymore.  
More than not, the guy on the box has way more tracktime/schools/track-knowledge, than what an amatuer should really have.
Back in the day, amatuer was truly track-newbies getting comfortable and somewhat proficient...then you moved up.
Now amateur is the LOTTO  ;D

[Team-G]

I did 4 am weekends my first season and got on the bump list; I was 39.  I asked to stay am the next year; according to the rules you can refuse the bump once.  I raced an entire season as a 40 yr old am, got a lot of good contingencies and wood.  It made my first full season very enjoyable, especially at my late starting age.

IMHO, base it on your own self-assesment, do what makes you comfortable.  You can always request a bump any time during the season also; lots of guys have done that.

[VCS Racing]

I did 4 am weekends my first season and got on the bump list; I was 39.  I asked to stay am the next year; according to the rules you can refuse the bump once.  I raced an entire season as a 40 yr old am, got a lot of good contingencies and wood.  It made my first full season very enjoyable, especially at my late starting age.

IMHO, base it on your own self-assesment, do what makes you comfortable.  You can always request a bump any time during the season also; lots of guys have done that.

This is my same situation, except I raced 9 weekends. Like I said above, I was a middle pack racer this year, which I'm comfortable with  but as a mid-packer, moving up to expert would leave in the same position, maybe worst. I'd just like to compete for a year before I get too old to do this stuff.

[VCS Racing]

Amatuer racing is all about easy money.  Pull the plug on amateur contingencies, and you will never hear another word or question about getting moved up.
Personally, I think they should dump am contingencies, since 'amatuer' is such a skewed term now anyway.  There aint no real amateur pocketing all that loot.
IMHO, there is no such thing as a fast amatuer anyway....not anymore.  
More than not, the guy on the box has way more tracktime/schools/track-knowledge, than what an amatuer should really have.
Back in the day, amatuer was truly track-newbies getting comfortable and somewhat proficient...then you moved up.
Now amateur is the LOTTO  ;D

If I were in it for the money, I'd have to admit I'm definitely in the wrong sport. In CCS FL, Amateurs don't get money, only contingencies. And as for fast AM, I'd have to say you're wrong, we've got some down here that will absolutely blow some EX's doors off.

Also, with all of the AM's getting moved up to EX every year and with no EX's moving on to bigger and better things, isn't it going to get really crowded sooner or later?

[Thingy]

I think :21s at BHF on an SV is fast enough for you to go expert.  You will be surprised, you won't be the slowest expert out there.

As long as you are comfortable holding your lines, do things consistently, etc., you won't have a problem.  Go expert, you won't regret it.

[Speedballer347]

If I were in it for the money, I'd have to admit I'm definitely in the wrong sport.

I wasnt directing my comment at you personally, just making a statement about the current affairs of amateur.
Didnt mean for it to sound like I was pointing a finger.

And as for fast AM, I'd have to say you're wrong, we've got some down here that will absolutely blow some EX's doors off.

I was one of those amateurs, and I was part of the problem.
A guy who gets on the track for the first time, and by mid season is whuppin ass....that's a fast amateur and more power to him.
But more than not (IMHO) the really fast am's have been to countless trackdays sharpening their skills and track knowledge long before any race license was purchased.  
The guys who fill their weekends w/ trackdays and schools w/ intentions of being the next amateur superstar, when they finally race?
I don't think that's what the amateur class was meant to be about.
W/ the dough involved, makes it pretty tempting to stay am.

Or maybe my thinking is too prehistoric.  Maybe trackdays and schools (pre license) are becoming the overwelming norm.  Maybe such prerequesites will be required to stay even remotely competitive in amateur eventually.  I dunno.  Maybe I need to get w/ the program and say coming into amateur w/ already competitive times makes for better and safer racing.  I dunno.
I can see both sides of it, but my heart says amateur is for learning to go fast, not learning to go fast then getting a license and dominate amateur class.
Like I said, take out the contingencies in amature...and people will be bribing CCS official for that "Expert" white plate.

And who am I to say anything, as I was once a cherry picker myself, to some degree.

[Scotty Ryan]

At the end of 2004 on my stock motored SV650 I was running low 1:17's high 1:16's as an amature. Tha season I won two regional championships.... There is a big spread in lap times between experts. Ed Key can run 1:15's and then there are some of the experts that are in the 1:20 range...At first you may not be as fast as everyone else but you are only as fast as your competition..If you get what I mean.....Hopefully this helps you in your decision...

[ahastings]

Also, with all of the AM's getting moved up to EX every year and with no EX's moving on to bigger and better things, isn't it going to get really crowded sooner or later?

No, because this sport has such a high turnover due to the expense involved. Most never make it to expert and those that due usually get out of the sport within 3 years.

[Super Dave]

I think most people don't gain any wisdom on what to spend money on.

As for fast amateurs...

There have been and always will be fast amateurs.  Before track days, there were still amateurs that could run inside the top five at the expert level.  Still, there is an experience level that is nice to gain as an amateur.  It's isn't just about speed.

The decision to stay amateur or go expert is usually an individual choice.  Both offer opportunities.  Do you have enough knowledge for the amateur class?  The fastest experts will go faster, but, like Thingy said, you won't be the slowest expert.

[Super Dave]

Maybe trackdays and schools (pre license) are becoming the overwelming norm.  Maybe such prerequesites will be required to stay even remotely competitive in amateur eventually.  I dunno.  Maybe I need to get w/ the program and say coming into amateur w/ already competitive times makes for better and safer racing.  I dunno.[/img]

Love the picture...

Doing a time and racing can be two different things.  Race craft, the abuse of racing head to head, is something that does need to be experienced to be learned.  Trackdays are about riding on a track at a reasonable percentage within one's ability.  Yes, some play a little harder, and some can go faster while riding within their set up and personal ability.

Too many variables.  And I've let loose riders with no experience on a road racing motorcycles that have put themselves in the top three immediately, and I've worked with riders over many programs to have them go slower racing than they have at school.  Too many variables to say one thing or another.

I will say that a track day is just a diversion of money that could be spent on racing.  And with no racing experience, what does a "trackday rider" really expect to work on...

Anyway, enough of my rambling...

[ninelives59]

If you scored enough points in 2005 your ready.By riding with the experts you will become faster and a better rider. 2nd thing the crashing is not out of control either..your decision 8)

[aberg12012]

Maybe this should be asked in a new thread, but as a newcommer this gets me really thinking about my game plan for the 06' season.

I have never been on the track.  I will be purchasing my first race ready bike this winter (an older R6) and planning on taking Learning Curves at BHF or RA first thing before anything else.  I already e-mailed Rick of Learning Curves asking when/where the first 06' session will be.  

I had planned on just jumping in with both feet and attending any races and track days I can, for maximum "play" time.  I'm only looking at this as an enjoyable weekend hobby, not to be a top competitor.  I'm comming "off the street" looking to push my own abilities on a bike, but with moderation in mind.  At least to start with...  I believe in starting slow, and getting the basics before concerning myself with track times, and being up front.

So the question:  Should I avoid running in amature races to start with?  Just stick with track days to get the basics, with less pressure of "keeping up?"  Or should I just jump in and get my feet wet?

Thanks guys, and sorry to bug ya' on this in this thread!

[Ridgeway]

I was in a similar situation at the beginning of this season.  I bought my race bike in the Fall of 04, and did manage to get one track day in on it prior to the end of that year, but didn't really learn much other than getting used to the bike a bit.

I took the LC class at the first BHF weekend, did a couple track days to knock some seconds off, and raced at the rest of the BHF events last year.

Looking back on it, there really isn't much I would have done differently, but I probably would've skipped the last couple track days that I did after my first actual race weekend.  Reason?  With the restrictive passing rules etc. riding at a trackday really didn't let me ride the way I needed to in a race.  Different mindset, different level of aggressiveness etc.

Here's how I would suggest you get going:

1. Do LCR at RA to get it out of the way early.
2. Do a couple track days at BHF prior to the first race there to get the bike dialed in, and learn the track.
3. Race, and have a blast doing it.

Don't worry about lap times or finishing position while you're just getting started.  Concentrate on your riding and bike setup and the lap times will come.  From LCR to my last race, I went from 1:40's to a best time of 1:21 over the space of 5 weekends, and it was raining for 2 of them.  I was definitely shellshocked my first real race weekend and was riding like an idiot (and slow one at that), but that would've been the case had I had 100 trackdays or 1.  Just part of the learning curve.

Also, track down a copy of Highside.  The first half of the book will really let you know what you're in for the first couple weekends!

[Ridgeway]

One other thing I thought I'd mention...

Have you considered starting out in Lightweight vs. going with a Middleweight out the gate?

[r1owner]

Maybe this should be asked in a new thread, but as a newcommer this gets me really thinking about my game plan for the 06' season.

I have never been on the track.  I will be purchasing my first race ready bike this winter (an older R6) and planning on taking Learning Curves at BHF or RA first thing before anything else.  I already e-mailed Rick of Learning Curves asking when/where the first 06' session will be.  

I had planned on just jumping in with both feet and attending any races and track days I can, for maximum "play" time.  I'm only looking at this as an enjoyable weekend hobby, not to be a top competitor.  I'm comming "off the street" looking to push my own abilities on a bike, but with moderation in mind.  At least to start with...  I believe in starting slow, and getting the basics before concerning myself with track times, and being up front.

So the question:  Should I avoid running in amature races to start with?  Just stick with track days to get the basics, with less pressure of "keeping up?"  Or should I just jump in and get my feet wet?

Thanks guys, and sorry to bug ya' on this in this thread!

I took the LC school too without ever being on the track.  I never attended a trackday before racing either.  You can do it.  

One thing I will say is to practice your starts before you ever get on the track, cause that first time it all goes so quick!  Not saying you have to do it a lot, just enough so you don't pull a huge wheelie or stall it. :)

[aberg12012]

Thanks for the help guys. Sounds like a plan.  I'll take LC at RA in April.  Is there also a track day at RA with the April date?  If so I'll hit that as well.  Can't wait!

Oh, and yea I did think about lightweight... however I have an R6 all lined up, and I've been riding middleweight class bikes on the street for a few years, (before that Goldwings) so I think it'll be a good place to start for me.  (Not that riding on the street is anything to prepare me for the track...)

Sorry to steal the thread, but thanks again!

Alan

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Also, track down a copy of Highside.  The first half of the book will really let you know what you're in for the first couple weekends!

Thank you sir!  //www.chrisonwiler.com will let you read the first chapter of Highside.

[aberg12012]

GREAT Cover Photo!  That photographer sure got lucky! :D  (I also do a bit of race photography, so I can appreciate the chances of getting a shot like that!)

[aberg12012]

Read the first chapter... YES!

I was suprised to recognize what you were describing was Blackhawk. :D  Although I've only been a spectator at BHF, I've rode through each corner a thousand times in my head.  Can't wait to read the rest.

[cbr806]

... Or should I just jump in and get my feet wet?

This quetstion comes up often on this BBS.  I didn't race the week-end of my school, but that's just because it was snowing.  I really think you should go ahead and race.  Just grid in the back and pick-up some stuff from the guys in front of you.  You'll probably be surprised in that there will be guys you'll be able to run with.  Just keep a consistant line and keep moving your brake markers in.  You're likley not to even get lapped at RA.

Re: staying AM - I passed the first time they bumped me up.  I really enjoyed running up front for a year.  I was 40 also though.  I look fwd now to running with the experts & when I have had the opportunity to run with the experts in combined evets, I could see that it is alot safer.  AM can get pretty harry with the lack of experience.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

GREAT Cover Photo!  That photographer sure got lucky! :D  (I also do a bit of race photography, so I can appreciate the chances of getting a shot like that!)

The rider and photographer were friends.  As the rider approached the corner, the photographer laid into the motor drive.... :o
Yeah, the story is set around the midwest, and much of the action occurs at Blackhawk.  It's the story of a beginner earning his license and going racing.  So far, 100% of the people who've read it have loved it, but we'll see what Super Dave has to say.... ::) ;)