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[r1owner]

There is no good answer to this dilemma.

I'm not sure I understand the dilemma.   In my mind there isn't one.

Someone thinks it's a good idea to require racers to cornerwork before getting their license and some don't.

As stated earlier, there appears to be enough cornerworkers to cover the track so... where's the problem?

[Johnny B]

I'm not sure I understand the dilemma.   In my mind there isn't one.
Someone thinks it's a good idea to require racers to cornerwork before getting their license and some don't.
As stated earlier, there appears to be enough cornerworkers to cover the track so... where's the problem?

You might have the numbers, but not necessarily the desired experience out there. I've worked at vintage events where we're cajoling racers to cough up their wives and girlfriends to give us enough coverage out on the track.
You can never have too many cornerworkers.
These people put up with long hours with no breaks, crappy weather, and little pay. They mostly go through all of this for the love of the sport and the camaraderie of the group. Needless to say, when they feel disrespected out there, (Riders passing on a waving yellow, upset riders being abusive) they sometimes wish that those who do so could be put in their shoes for a day or two, just to get an idea of what they go through out there.

[migkilr]

Well, first on the topic of corner working.  I too started my racing at WSMC and drove over 2000 miles round trip from Idaho to race as often as I could.  I never made expert because I couldn't justify the time and expense of going all the way down there to spend a day corner working... although I had the points, I never made expert.  This requirement to cornerwork is a different burden for different people.  Any way, food for thought...

Which brings me to my next comment, I too noticed the gigantic difference in the requirement for novices to make expert.  Yes, I'm still a novice and I can't believe they made it that much harder!!!!  Was this on purpose??  I'm curious to see what they say. ???

[mike_rbm]

Which brings me to my next comment, I too noticed the gigantic difference in the requirement for novices to make expert.  Yes, I'm still a novice and I can't believe they made it that much harder!!!!  Was this on purpose??  I'm curious to see what they say. ???

I'm glad it's a bit tougher to get a white plate. At blackhawk there are first year racers turning quick 16 and 17 laps while some of the white plate experts  ::) on 600 and 750s are turning 18 - 21 laps! When you do a 1-20 lap and some is doing 13's that is an unsafe situation.

[Eric Kelcher]

Which brings me to my next comment, I too noticed the gigantic difference in the requirement for novices to make expert.  Yes, I'm still a novice and I can't believe they made it that much harder!!!!  Was this on purpose??  I'm curious to see what they say. ???

The average finish position and number of races required for the bump have remained nearly the same as 05. There was a change a few years ago that made the bump harder (old points systme from 500 to 750) because the number of valid protests by the riders in that 500-700 point range.

You can always (beginiing of season or even on a race weekend speak to your race director or the office inbetween races) petition to be advanced to expert status.

[migkilr]

Erik,
Thanks for the reply.  Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but let me provide an example:
Using last years point system if I ran the 2006 Florida series (12 races) and did 2 races per weekend, I would have to average a 19th place finish to get the 750 points to advance to expert (actually this would get you 768 pts).
Using this years points system, if I did the same series and did 2 races per weekend, I would have to average an 8th place finish to get the required 400 pts (actually it would be 408 pts)
Unless I'm doing my math wrong, that is a big difference.  Now I certainly don't want to argue that slow riders should get white plates etc... if the intent was to cut back on advancing riders than this should do the trick.  But if this was not the intent, I think things will be a lot harder this year for novices to advance.
I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, I'm just happy to show up and race!  

[Super Dave]

I'm glad it's a bit tougher to get a white plate. At blackhawk there are first year racers turning quick 16 and 17 laps while some of the white plate experts  ::) on 600 and 750s are turning 18 - 21 laps! When you do a 1-20 lap and some is doing 13's that is an unsafe situation.

An expert is just a rider that has the experience that allows them to race as an expert.  It doesn't mean that you have a "lap time" requirement.  

AMA Pro has a lap time requirement, but in this example http://www.amaproracing.com/prorace/raceres/rr/cres.asp?cls=ls&snct=p7240&type=q&year=2005 the riders that made the field for the start still had a fifteen second spread.

There are first year racers that can do 13's at Blackhawk also.

[Johnny B]

An expert is just a rider that has the experience that allows them to race as an expert.  It doesn't mean that you have a "lap time" requirement.  

There are first year racers that can do 13's at Blackhawk also.

More and more riders are doing track days first. When they get more comfortable with their machines at speed, they might decide to try their hand at racing.
A lot of times, these racers are accused of cherry picking. Mongo once pointed out to the whiners that their track day experience had these riders turning quick lap times right off the bat. However, they still have to get a little racecraft under their belts before they can step up to the next level. Not everybody is able to attend track days. Loudon only has them on weekdays. As a result, there is wide disparity in lap times, even among the rookies.

[Scotty Ryan]

Coming from a Motocross background, I think that it would be a good idea for new racers to have a set amount of time CW before they are allowed to race their third weekend(could be made up during the first two weekends).I had to corner work at one point or another because at most tracks we did't have more then five people willing to help & at some tracks we didn't have that.I just think it gives you as a new rider a small lesson in the fact that everyone has to work together to have a day go smoothly at the track...

An expert is just a rider that has the experience that allows them to race as an expert.  It doesn't mean that you have a "lap time" requirement.  

AMA Pro has a lap time requirement, but in this example http://www.amaproracing.com/prorace/raceres/rr/cres.asp?cls=ls&snct=p7240&type=q&year=2005 the riders that made the field for the start still had a fifteen second spread.

There are first year racers that can do 13's at Blackhawk also.

Example: I spent last year riding an SV650 in the novice group turning Low 1:17's at Black hawk,This was my first Expert season, Riding a 600 I was able to get down to my low of a high 1:12. At any level you will have people in the same classification running at different paces. Just look at the differance between Tommy hadens qualifying time and mine, ten seconds and change.......That's big - real big......Just like at any local Road Race, Motocross had a big gap between the front runners in the "A" Expert  class and the guys in the rest of the race......


Just my two cents......

[mike_rbm]

There are first year racers that can do 13's at Blackhawk also.

I must have missed them!  ::) First year at blackhawk - with many years racing something or somewhere else?

[Super Dave]

I must have missed them!  ::) First year at blackhawk - with many years racing something or somewhere else?

2003 with a rider we worked with.  Never raced a motorcycle.  Never did a track day before we abused him at our school.  It happens.  

[TommyG]

2003 with a rider we worked with.  Never raced a motorcycle.  Never did a track day before we abused him at our school.  It happens.  

You forgot to mention he got off the track at the emergency exit in turn 5 and raced over to the tower! ::)