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[morepower]

Just so everybody will know, when I made the connection to WSMC requiring all AM to corner work before they can go EX their are not really working a corner they are there to observe and help if required by the worker. They also
get the choice of what corner they want to work.

I did it and have no regrets. I did get to see the omega (T4a&b)in a difference light. Learned what lines worked and one that did not work so well. BTW, no access to the infield @ WSMC so the vantage point was worth it.. I dont really know why WSMC makes you do it, call it a right of passage I guess !

[SVbadguy]

I agree with Xian_13 and K3 Chris Onwiler.

I've been cornerworking with Mid-Atlantic Roadracing Club since 1996.  I started racing with CCS in 1997.  These days I'm racing CCS and only cornerworking WERA events.

Particularly with Summit Point, everything I learned about that track while cornerworking made everything much easier when I finally got on the track.  There is so much to know about the various surfaces at Summit.

Eventually I knew damn well I could go faster than some of the guys I was watching (in middleweight), I had a GS500 at the time. ;D  So the next year ('97) I did the MARRC race school and then had to wait a month for the first CCS weekend.  

I did really well too and much of that had to do with the track knowledge I had gained from cornerworking. You learn a lot about what not to do when working turn 1. :o



Beliefs like these are exactly why racers should have some cornerworking experience:

In cornerworkers' defense, I think (correction gladly accepted) that throwing flags is a race control decision, usually not left up to individual cornerworker.

Does everyone that works a corner know CPR?  If not, they should!  Talk about something that would help a racer!  I'd rather see some of my fees go towards better trained cornerworkers.  

With MARRC, it is basically the corner captain that makes the call to stop a race.  The captain informs race control of the situation and if severe enough requests that the race be stopped.  In MARRC, we are never second guessed and race control themself will call for all stations to show the red flag.  The ambulance flag had some set guidelines.  All other flags are displayed at the discretion of any worker as soon as they deem it necessary.

As far as CPR, I'm sure most of us do know CPR.  But that is not our job, at least in MARRC.  From what I've seen there are always three EMS units at the track, at least one being ALS.  They are the ones trained and getting paid to deal with severe trauma, not us.  I call for the ambulance and do what I can to comfort and calm the racer, be it give him some shade or a drink of water.

Who knows what cornerworker priorities are?
1.  Yourself
2.  Fellow cornerworkers
3.  Racers still racing
4.  Racers that have crashed
5.  The bike

I don't have to, but I've done quite a bit to get racers back on track after crashing.  Like retrieving their bike from a not-so-safe location or whipping out some tools.


And what's with this line of thought that you have to pay to cornerwork?  Most places pay the workers.  An exception to this is MARRC.  We get free entry to the track, awesome home-cooked meals by EmerWil and crew and the best vantage point next to actually racing.  That's it and we don't care.  Like the club's motto "dedicated to the advancement of motorcycle roadracing".

It really seems like a lot of racers don't know what's happening between the track and the fences holding back the spectators.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

1. Learning the Flags and track rules. There are more then a handful of people racing for more then a few years that don't understand the freaking flags. Or even the Blend line. I don't know if a anyone here knows how many violation happen every weekend.

Quite a number Xian. When I work T1 @ BHF theres usually an average of 3-4 blend line violations in teh first practice sessions. Most of which are carrying white plates. Also theres been a rash of riders who IGNORE the debris waveoff flag and ride around the track to pit in instead of getting the F off the track. We know they seen the flag since they acknowledged it when we waved it at them. Next time someone bitches about us taking a half an hour to clean an oil line left by someone who was leaking oil through 4+ corners, dont whine to us.

2. Case and point, its not the corner workers job to pick up your bike after you left it on the track...

Exactly. I didnt throw the bike down. If you pop up and start walking away, you better believe you will get yelled at to come get you bike. If yopu are injured, fine thats no big deal to pick it up then, but dont walk away because you are pissed and expect someone else to pick it up for you. Last time I checked, this isnt PROFESSIONAL RACING. Not all if the corner workers can pick a bike up by themselves. Help them.

[Burt Munro]

I think a number of the responses here are missing the point.  The suggestion is not that it would be a requirement for every racer - just those that are new license holders.  

The strongly worded objections seem to be coming from those that have years and dozens of races under their belts.  You have every right to believe that working a corner for a day wouldn't benefit you.

But think back to your first race weekend.  How many of you remember exactly what was going through your head.  My guess is that you probably were closer to being scared sh1tle$$ than anything else. You had doubts about screwing up your start - either killing your bike as the flag dropped or pulling a 12 o'clock high!  Doubts if you would still be on 2 wheels after the first turn.  You get the picture.  You had a million and one things that you were worried about.

Would cornerworking for a day take away all of this anxiety? Nope!  You may still lose your focus at the start.  You may still forget to put gas in the tank. Nothing teaches you more than actually getting out there and doing it - experience - on the job training!

And I really think a number of you are looking at this from your 'experienced perspective.'  You've been there already and made all the newby mistakes and learned from them.

Even if spending the day on a corner would ease a new racers anxiety by 10% - that's good!  Even if they only learn one thing that will keep them and the racers around them safer - that's good. The goal is to get a new racer over that first couple of humps and bumps quickly and safely.

The analogy relating the lifeguard to drowning holds no merit.  No more logical than saying a helmet and leathers should be optional to race.  'I'm not planning on crashing!'  'If I go down I'm only hurting myself!' 'It should be my choice!'  Yet I challenge even one of you who would consider for 1 second, going out on the race track without  a helmet and leathers.  Who are you hurting?  Not the guy on the bike next to you! It's MY decision!

Try and remember what was going through your head your first race weekend.  That's who would benefit from this!

[Xian_13]

yup and there are always questions at every riders meeting about the flags/start procedure...and reminders the next day...and I'm glad they do it - keeps it fresh in everyone's mind

Yes, they do... every riders meeting...
Yes, people ignore the flags all the time.
Read Rob940's post.

but here's a thought...what are the requirments/training to cornerwork? we take a class and have to have a license to race...we pay for that...is there anything like that to cornerwork? or can you just show up and say you want to help and they give you a headset and put you out on the track with someone and learn it?

In the Midwest, Corner workers have "on the Job training".
Basicly, you work a corner for one day as your training (you don't get paid). After that, you can cornerwork at any time.

Another one of the thoughts, as why I like this idea, is...
If for what ever reason, there are NOT enough corner workers, the safety director can pull racers... that have some training.

Before you scream
No, I would not like to be forced to work a corner over racing.... However, if it meant no one raced, that would be a differant story.

[LMsports]

Everyone is making good points. I can see the merit in having new riders work corners. I did it when I first got my license with the CRA as it is their policy. Frankly though, I was just Pi$$ed off that I was MADE to do this and I didn't get the positive benefit that have been discussed here. I have more of an open mind now, but I went there to race. I go to the track now to race. I would assume that many other new racers that show up to compete will have a similar reaction to the one I had. They may see the light later, but noone likes being made to do something that they frankly don't like to do.

[KBOlsen]

Cornerworker training in the Midwest is a little more involved than just "working a corner for the first day without pay".  You spend your morning first learning about flags, signaling and other protocol, then there is a written test... and you spend the rest of the day assigned to a corner station with one of the more (most?) experienced corner marshalls.  You don't just show up, take a headset and go.

And here too, while a cornerworker may request that the race/practice be stopped, Race Control has the final word on when the red flag is thrown.

[Bigsexy]

Well guys this will be my first year racing and i will be getting my license for the first time. So if this was a rule that would mean i will be spending most of my first weekend on a corner. now i can see this being a good idea to spend an afternoon on a corner but not my first weekend, you see my first race will be at Road America and i realy dont want to drive 10 hours to sit on a corner all day. I have been racing kart for over 14 years now and i dont think the experance will be all that much help to me. also im going to be racing to win Championships and if all goes well the #1 plate so i really cant afford to throw away a whole day.
just the opinion of someone who would be affected my this
if it is the case that i have to work a corner i will fly somewhere that has a race before RA and corner there for a day (that will suck)

[Johnny B]

Frankly though, I was just Pi$$ed off that I was MADE to do this and I didn't get the positive benefit that have been discussed here.

This is the crux of the problem. I've seen suggestions in the past that riders be made to cornerwork as part of their advancement requirement or as the penalty for certain infractions, such as passing on a waving yellow. I think the US Marshalls would rather not have people who don't want to be out there as cornerworkers. There might also be legal issues as far as exposing an unwilling person to danger.

[Super Dave]

That's a good one, Johnny.

I don't see corner working as a requirment for car racing, MX, dirt track, etc.

Although the idea has merits, someone that doesn't learn flags in one way may still not learn them in another venue.

Yes, cornerworking will give a different perspective.  

Seeing a different line is fine.  Understanding the needs of executing that line can often only be seen from the seat of a motorcycle.  Often, executing a line goes back to how braking is executed also.  Again, might be easier to see that from the seat.

I cannot say that riders that have had prior cornerworking experience have had better results in racing from a lap time or safety stand point.  

I don't see where requiring a newly licensed racer will necessarily reduce flag or blend line violations or any rider safety issues.  Some times, there are specific riders that have these problems over and over.

It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the rider to reconize, learn, and execute.

Additionally, if a new racer shows up with a fussy FZR400 with flatslides, do you risk that riders opportunity to focus on his equipment and his riding?  

If I had it my way, I'd require licensing to be done prior to the event in a longer format.  I've taught Saturday licensing programs, and I don't find them personally satisfying as there is too much to cover ON THE TRACX.  

[CCS]

The Saturday Licensing Clinic is just that, a clinic. It is not there to teach you how to ride or race, it there to verify that you understand the procedures and etiquette required to be allowed to race.



Road racing is the only motorcycle sport that has this confirmation of basic knowledge before you start racing. Drag racing doesn't, Motocross doesn't. Track Days don't.

If you want to learn to ride, go take a longer class with any of the schools, but if you've done all that, we as the sanctioning body have a responsibility to the other riders to affirm that you have the basic knowledge need to be on the track with others at this level. That's why we offer these clinics and review schools before they are granted accreditation to allow their student to pass this requirement.

Twenty years ago I was part of a group that required you cornerwork before you got your license and my observation was they did it as quick as they could and didn't take the time to really learn. As someone else said it, they felt like they were being punished and some riders actually went to other clubs to escape that requirement.

There is no good answer to this dilemma.

[Jeff]

And to be quite honest, I've never seen a race cancelled due to lack of corner workers...

Granted, there aren't 10 or 15 sitting around doing nothing, but there always seems to be enough to get by.