If you had an option...

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Ok, so CCS and the track both want to take a little extra out of each and every racer's pocket.  Great.  That's what racers exist for, to be pillaged for money.  But how about guests and spectators?  Go ahead and rape the racer for his racer's armband, but maybe give spectators a break?
Now remember, racing is about taking a racer's money.  Sponsorship and spectators are about racers getting more money.  Is Clearchannel in the business of helping racers, or are thy in the business of taking racer's money?
Spectators are important, yes?  We all talk about how sponsorship would be more plentiful and contingency higher if we had a larger fan base.  Perhaps the fans we seek aren't made of money?  Average 21 year old on his Gixxer, he's got 3K insurance and spent what was left at the bar last night trying to hook up.  Let him and his buddies in cheap!
Blackhawk is right down the road from 2 major college towns.  Price spectator tickets at $5, put up fliers in the coffee shops and bars of Madison and DeKalb, and watch that place fill up with the kind of demographics most sponsors live for.  This would be very good for the sport.  But CCS doesn't want to deal with that hassle.  And why should they?  The whole org is run by half-a-dozen underpaid employees and a mess of volunteers.  Why deal with the increased hassle of spectators when Clearchannel can just suck every last dime from the racers themselves, with minimum expenditure on their part?
Face it.  Racers pay Clearchannel.  Spectators would buy sponsor's products.  This would NOT get Clearchannel one extra dime.  Why would Clearchannel want to do something that wouldn't make them more money?  What?  To help their racer customers?  WAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Oh, I crack myself up sometimes!

[Mongo]

Ummm, not sure on CCE - but the CCS arm of it is indeed in the business of taking money from racers - you're the customers. We have to charge you what we need to to get the bills paid.  

Either way the gate fees are set by enough of the tracks now that there is nothing the sanctioning bodies can do about it other than try to get them to work with us.  But the decision is theirs on cost and the split for the most part (I'd say at 75% of the tracks we rent).

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

From what I've seen, WERA views racers as customers.  CCE views them as cash cows.  It's not so bad getting effed if you get a kiss, too.  It's even better if the org seems genuinely concerned with delivering the best environment possible.  WERA seems to have a much better handle on this than CCE.  I don't say CCS, because I respect those people, and know that they don't make policy.
The point of this thread is, "what could CCS change to make it better for us racers."  My stance is that CCE doesn't give a $#!% about its CCS customers.  It's 100% about the money, and 0% about the sport, the customer base, or building for the future.
I guess my view comes from a year spent working for Sportbike Track Time.  Monte and Bonnie have a great attitude toward their customers.  STT views its riders as customers, and does everything possible to enhance their experience.  CCS views it's customers as sheep to be shorn.  Personally, when I'm spending money, I like to be treated like a customer, not a scumbag who should be grateful for the opportunity.

[Super Dave]

What if we enforced the rules?  If you never tear anyone down, everyone has to cheat to be competitive.  Those who can't afford to cheat lose.

I'll agree and disagree with that.

Yes, I know there is cheating.

No, you don't have to cheat to win.

You shouldn't be considered a whiner for having someone torn down.  We did it a few years ago, not me, but an instructor of mine.  The guy that was protested admitted cheating, but there was no penalty other than being eliminated from the race.  

Then, his friend protested my guy.  He was livid because he felt that it was done to affect his next weekend.  (His guy admitted guilt and didn't tear down his motor.)  Knowing that his bike was legal, I told him he would race my bike the next weekend if need be.  The CCS referred and the CCS tech inspector both wanted to refuse the protest from the other party as they recognized the fact that the only reason the protest was being fiels was because of his origninal protest. Per rule 12.10.1, the Referee will not accept any protest that is malicious.  The CCS race director over ruled.

Don DeChant and I tore it down, was legal, and in need of a valve job.  Rider received the protest fee of $500 for tearing it down to see the crank.  Cost more to put it back together, and he raced my bike at the next event.

[Super Dave]

and to think the race only cost 25 bucks to enter! You even get free lunch and jerseys. I still wake up every morning and have a bad taste in my mouth from CCS :P

Stumpy

The cost of races...

I don't think that's something that can be changed.

A race track has a cost.  With the track days driving up costs, good dates are hard to get.

I did a bike race, and it was public roads.  Upkeep is paid by tax payers for things like that.  Not relevant.

[Super Dave]

Perhaps the fans we seek aren't made of money?  Average 21 year old on his Gixxer, he's got 3K insurance and spent what was left at the bar last night trying to hook up.  Let him and his buddies in cheap!

But is that really the customer base for motorcycle road racing?

I'd say the racing enthusiast is a little older.

KE and Sean could probably tell us that even the demographic of the rider has gotten older over the years.

21 years old...yeah, might rather be hooking up rather than watching fifteen classes of racing.

CCS and WERA should be the opportunity for the racer/race team to drive the market.

If you were sponsored by Beloit Honda or something, yeah, that person should have fliers in the colleges.  Get's em to the track, send's 'em to the dealership after meeting a sponsored rider.  If it was CCE that was driving the customers, then Beloit Honda should be sponsoring the CCS event, not a CCS racer.

[Super Dave]

Given all that, I think that a racing organization should offer a market opportunity for racers.

Yeah, there should be a viable class structure to promote racing by various riders on various bikes.

Club racing has traditionally billed itself as "sportsman racing"; racing that is paid and financed by racers.  Hence the raking over the coals for gate fees.

Points.  Current way of it being done is just terrible.  If you're gonna be that bad at it, why ask anyone even to try race in an organization for a championship.  Oh, is that a pun...organization?

With the proliferation of track days, some racers mind set has changed, in our area.  It's almost high time to have a three tier structure for licensing.  True amateurs, fast guys that would race for some kind of reasonable, not decent, payout, and a sportsman class for those that are not amateurs which don't feel the need to try and update all the time and may not feel obligated to try and be the fastest of the fast.

Given the right weekend structure, it could be a small show that would actually attract individuals to a race track to see the program.

[motomaniac]

How about regions.  Anyone ever look at the Great Plains Region.  Blackhawk, RA,gingerman, autobaun, MAM, Barber, Heartland?  How do you call that a region.  Compair it to the MidWest.  Remembe the Great Lakes? Looks like this is one region, not three. Wow, the people with the most time and money spent can be Multi-Regional Champs. And how is Barber even considered???????!!!!!!!

The Great Plains would look nice like this: MAM, Heartland, Gateway, Hallet.
I call that a Great Plains region.  

The midwest would look like this: RA, Blackhawk, Autobaun, Gingerman, Gateway.

You would get people who live in these areas, mainly the great plains area to race then.  No disrespect, but then you wouldn't have the Mid West or Great Plains riders complaining about driving across the country. You would get more to show up because they don't have to spend all of their time and money Traveling.

There are plenty of riders to SUPPORT these regions alone without sucking them dry by requiring them to travel to win a championship.  Then, maybe some local shops or companies would sponsor some racers, or races. And, you would get more racers because they wouldn't have to drive across the nation to try and win a Championship.

I could go on... and on... and on....


Motomaniac

[motomaniac]

OH yeah.  These riders would still go to places like Barber, or RA because they like the tracks.  

I travel to RA yearly not to win a championship, because I like the track and, USED to enjoy racing there with the CCS.
Now that it is a triple dupel plus regional plus a national that is to much to run in a weekend properly you won't find me traveling there for that.  I'll spend my money racing against the AMA guys to have fun during a proper run raceweekend at Road America.

Run Fusa events on their own.  And if you have to combine them, maybe try a regular event.  Not a quadruple regional or whatever.

Make RA a proper race weekend and I'll think about coming back.

[kmf600]

I kinda like the idea of having an endurance race in the weekend.  I don't know how much I would want to do four or five races if I was going to do a two hour enduro.  I think the best thing to do is get rid of the $25 entry fee.  If you can get twice the people in at $10, what are you loosing?

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

I kinda like the idea of having an endurance race in the weekend.  I don't know how much I would want to do four or five races if I was going to do a two hour enduro.  I think the best thing to do is get rid of the $25 entry fee.  If you can get twice the people in at $10, what are you loosing?

CMRA runs several rounds of practice Saturday morning, then the obscure classes, then a 4 hour enduro.  Sunday is when they run the more mainstream sprint races, so there is time to rest.

[that_guy]

I am that guy.  
 
I just started doing track days and made my way out to see a few races to get a feel for the scene.  I do plan on moving up and racing once my skills improve some more.  So with that intro, here is what I saw and my $.01
 
Gate:  My brother and I were a little surprised to get whacked $40 for us to spectate.  I have co workers who dirt track at Sycamore and it's a fun night for $10..    Track days.  NESBA covers the gate for spectators so lots of "on the fence" friends or family can come out for $0 and enjoy the day.  Funny thing, I also went to Northern  and studied economics.   Think elasticity..  $10 does not seem to bad for a race/ $20 is not bad for good lap dances..  $40 is for a nice Scotch.  elasticity    not all goods and dollars are the same.
 
Info:  We did not see any sort of program or even a bulletin board with a schedule of what was racing when.
 
Classes:  What the heck is going on out there?   We are sort of enthusiasts, and have some knowledge, but some classes had a Heinz 57 flavor going on. ( a odd mix of bikes)  What are the dang classes and how do the bikes fit into one.  I believe that a SS can run "up" to SB and a lightweight can race up ?  and so on.  Which brings it back to info  and "what in the heck is going on out there?"  Is there a must see "feature event"?
 
Racing: It was very cool to walk all around BHF and see lots of good racing . That part was pretty entertaining as is.  I enjoyed it more than the AMA follow Mat show at Road America  
 
Racers:  We walked around a bit and enjoyed the very relaxed family atmosphere, but there was nothing to make us feel welcome or un welcome.  Maybe make a effort to say hi to unfamiliar faces and thank people who do come out.  Some cool 8X10"s for the kids walls or a few T shirts might break the ice for not too many $$$.
 
Distractions:  It's a long day, or half day watching bikes go around and around again.  Maybe have something else going on too.  Like a bike show and /or have a stage and a few bands.  Not every one is THAT into racing, but would come out as part of a bigger event.
 
 
That's all I have rattling around my noggin right now.     I hope to join you nut cases  soon
 
that guy    :D