Uh-Oh, an Oil Thread

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

   Since we are on the subject of fuel now, I had an experience with race fuel myself. I haven't ever used any of the exotic race fuels before but I have used Cam 2 mixed with Amoco Ultimate.
   After racing my new bike for only a season and a half I started experiencing fuel starvation problems toward the end of a race. This would actually get so bad I would have to pull off the track and the bike would not restart for several minutes.
   Investigating the problem I found that my fuel line filter was clogged. After cleaning it I raced again and experienced the problem again. Checking further into the problem I found that the sock type filter on the fuel pump intake inside the gas tank was almost completely blocked with a rust like residue. I cleaned it and looked inside the bottom of the tank with a mirror noticing that the bottom of the tank had a coating of this same residue, so I cleaned that also. I figured that the place I had purchased fuel from had contamination getting in their fuel somehow, so I started getting fuel from a different place. I was able to race a few events before the problem returned and I had all that same residue build-up again.
   I checked the gas tank more completely and found that the upper third of the tank was rusted quite badly. I contacted Suzuki directly and they said it was because the Cam 2 I was using was an oxygenated fuel. They said that this type of fuel will actually start to break down and causes condensation in the tank which will cling to the top of the tank and start rusting it. When I asked why the coating in the tank doesn't prevent this they said that there is no coating in their gas tanks and this is only a problem for people racing and not the general street riding public. They also said that coatings generally won't stand up to the race fuels anyways. I ended up buying a new gas tank!
   I am now very careful to keep the fuel tank as full as possible with regular gas between events to help prevent this.

[Super Dave]

Whoa!

Nutec's problem is really related to Nutec's additive.  I'll leave it at that.  I addressed that above.  If there is a caustic problem, it's a storage problem at either a) the reseller, or b) at home.

Fuel should be stored off the ground.  Most people don't do this.  Put a 2x4 under your drum or a pallett.  You will get water in your fuel if you don't.

Unleaded fuel for the street is all pretty much oxygenated nation wide with MTBE, the oxygenate in racing fuel.  Suzuki's full of it on that one.  Cam 2 is pretty old tech.  That problem would have been something that someone had seen for thirty years.  I haven't seen that.  And I race vintage bikes too.  Street gas is not designed for storage.  It's good for 14 to 28 days.  Racing fuel is designed to be stable.  Sunoco claims that racing fuel is good for two years.  Why, because it doesn't need some components in it that street gas does.  Again, there's nothing particualarly exotic there.

But Cam 2 is bulk fuel.  They make it, it goes in a truck.  That truck might have had heating oil or diesel one week.  Then it goes in someone's tank, rusty or not, different fuel before, etc.  No idea what you're getting.

Which Cam2 were you using specifically?

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

   Super Dave; The Cam 2 I have used in the past was 113 octane if I remember correctly. I don't know anything more specific than that about the fuel. I purchased the fuel from 3 different places; A local dealer, BHF, and Heartland Park. I kind of figured that Suzuki rep was feeding me a load of **** in order to not have to replace a gas tank. As I said previously the upper portion of the inside of my gas tank was rusted quite badly. Strangely enough after replacing my tank I have never had this problem again, though I have used those same suppliers since then. Who knows? I have merely described the experience that I had.
   I purchase my fuel the day before I leave for a race, use plastic fuel containers, keep the containers in the back of my trailer (off the ground), and use any remaining fuel in my street bike - so fuel storage between events, by me, is non-existent.
   What I meant by exotic fuels was fuels that you generally cannot obtain thru means other than ordering them (unless a dealer just so happens to be near you). I have tried to stay away from the ultra expensive fuels in order to put that money toward more track time and tires. I am aware that the newer race fuels are better than what I have used in the past and I would see a significant gain if I used them.
   Thanks for the fuel info, I appreciate it! Maybe I will try them out this upcoming season.

[Super Dave]

  Super Dave; The Cam 2 I have used in the past was 113 octane if I remember correctly. I don't know anything more specific than that about the fuel. I purchased the fuel from 3 different places; A local dealer, BHF, and Heartland Park. I kind of figured that Suzuki rep was feeding me a load of **** in order to not have to replace a gas tank. As I said previously the upper portion of the inside of my gas tank was rusted quite badly. Strangely enough after replacing my tank I have never had this problem again, though I have used those same suppliers since then. Who knows? I have merely described the experience that I had.
   I purchase my fuel the day before I leave for a race, use plastic fuel containers, keep the containers in the back of my trailer (off the ground), and use any remaining fuel in my street bike - so fuel storage between events, by me, is non-existent.
   What I meant by exotic fuels was fuels that you generally cannot obtain thru means other than ordering them (unless a dealer just so happens to be near you). I have tried to stay away from the ultra expensive fuels in order to put that money toward more track time and tires. I am aware that the newer race fuels are better than what I have used in the past and I would see a significant gain if I used them.
   Thanks for the fuel info, I appreciate it! Maybe I will try them out this upcoming season.

Ah, you have a big mistake in racing fuels.  Plastic containers breath.  Many of the aromatics, and especially oxygenates that might be in the fuel, evaporate through the porus plastic container.  Liquid fuel will not leak out, but....

Mixing this fuel with street gas is a good thing.  I can give you reasons why.  You just have to make sure that you do it in a consistent manner.

Significant gain...

That's an open ended statement.  Depending upon your lap times, there might not be enough of a significant gain to warrant the use of a more exotic fuel.  I can give you an additive that you can put in a racing fuel or street gas that you will feel.

As my Power Mist stuff....

Yes, it has to be ordered, but I'm the distributor, so I keep stuff on hand.  Consistency is Power Mist's big thing.  It's great for power, but if you can't have any consistency, who cares.  

Having to deal with different racing disiplines, I've got lots of stories about other fuels.  Again, that's another post.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

   Super Dave; when I stopped racing at the end of 1999 my best lap times on my '96 GSXR 750 were high 1:16 laps at BHF. Though not one of the fastest guys, I usually would finish around 5th - give or take a few positions. I have an '02 GSXR 750 that I will be racing this upcoming season and I still am not sure if I will mess with any of the racing fuels or not with this bike. I don't want to mess with a race fuel that gives me only a minimal gain, but ultimately may damage the engine. On the other hand, if it was safe to use and didn't require me to take out a mortgage to use the stuff, then mabey. Since I am not one of the front runners, and I go to almost every event by myself, I have a tendency to be slightly conservative when I race. For this reason I would be concerned if the better fuels provide more of a snap in the acceleration or if it's smooth power gains from the stuff (don't like getting high-sided coming out of a turn from the rear tire having a mind of its own). Don't mean to sound like a wuss or anything, just need to be able to drive myself back to the homestead after an event. Also, your suggesting using steel gas cans? And is using 'Stable' fuel stabilizer in pump gas ok during the winter hibernation (heard you should keep the tank full also)? Or should I empty the tank and fog it? Thanks for your input into an area that I am not overly educated in.

[Super Dave]

I've used Stabil with good results.  I usually leave it full then.  Less air in the tank.  

I've left my race fuel in the tank no problem too for the winter.

As for harming an engine with fuel...

Fuel is stupid.  It only does what you tell it.  If you burn down and engine, there is something mechanically wrong or it was tuned way too lean.

I can pretty much put TO137 straight into my tank no problem as a replacement for pump gas.  Pump gas is unleaded with an oxygenate (1.5 to 3% oxygen) with a specific gravity of about .755.  TO137 is leaded has 5% oxygen and weighs in at .745.  It is lighter than street gas, but has more oxygen.  So, that should make it leaner.  But the lead allows the fuel mixture to burn more completely.  But oxygenates like to burn at a richer mixture when compared to gasoline.  In the end, it about evens out.  

But, that's what your up against.  

Acceleration is the key.  I do have a mix that I make using a combination of several fuels an oxygenate.  Works really well.  Should be a pour in for gasoline and it won't break the bank.  Gets the bike off the corner.  

Steel cans.  Yes.  Keep 'em off the ground.  Keep 'em clean.  For lawn mowers, plastic is fine.  But for racing, plastic containers are only good for measuring.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

   I am also curious about dyno tuning. I am planning on having my bike dyno tuned and would imagine that you obviously have to have the fuel your going to be racing with in the bike during this. Any thoughts on this?
   Thanks for the advice. I will look ya up if I decide to use the better stuff.

[Super Dave]

Another can of worms....

First, I think Dynojet dynos are too simple, and that they cannot provide duplicateable runs.  They are worthless as real tuning tools.

They now have load control models.  But the load controls overheat...  Again no duplication.

You need to find someone with a dyno like Factory Pro sells, Mustang, or Land and Sea.  Otherwise, I think it's a waste.

My GSXR600 ran basically stock for the two years I used it.  No Power Commander or Yosh PMS, or whatever.  You've got to find someone that could actually do it.

I can give you an opinion of who I would go to.  E-mail me.

Preferably, if you were to use the fuel, you'd want to tune it for that.  Again, drop me a note.