Trying to learn about the SV...help

[PolishPete]

Can someone explain SV's for me please, hopefully be buying one soon...yay, anyway...what makes them good, what makes them bad...do they have generations 99-01, 02-04 etc??  Where can I find spare parts...of course ebay, classifieds, from other racers...any websites??  Thanks in advance!!   ;D

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

99-02 or 03-present.  Late models throw cranks, because Suzuki got cheap on the bearings.  My 03 has been OK, but many have exploded.  I'd get a first gen if I were starting over.
Supersport legal means stock forks and 70-75 hp.  Stock forks suck.  GSXR forks rule.  You might as well forget running supersport, because every other class the SV is good for runs superbike rules, and the superbikes are way faster than the supersport bikes, as in GSXR forks and 90-100 hp.  The hot ticket would be to find a really well built first gen SV700 with flatslides and a Gixxer front end.  That's a 6-7 grand bike though....
On the other hand, I have a friend taking podiums and the occasional win as an amateur on a stock motor and Racetech'd stock forks.  He can ride, though....
Mostly, it depends on what the other guys bring, and if they can ride it.  I'm blown away by what amateurs are bringing to the track these days.
Hey!  Don't let my reply get you down.  Someone will always spend more money than you, no matter what class you choose.  In Amateur, talent beats money every time.  In Expert, there are lots of guys who have both, so it gets harder.  You're on the right track wanting an SV.  They're easy to ride and don't eat tires.  The competition is fierce.  NO matter what you buy or how good you turn out to be, you'll have more fun than you ever had in your life!

[Super Dave]

Chassis is the most important.

Building more powerful motors with various carb parts will require more work and money trying to tune it rather than focusing on the rider's issues and how the chassis works.

Quite simply, any chassis can suck.

And improvements can be made to any chassis, including old ones from the 60's or 70's.  Does not require new cartidge type forks, etc.  But there's more than one way to skin a cat.

If you're gonna start out, you've got choices.

- more of a basic motorcycle where it starts with a push button on makes reasonably consistent power.  Focus on how to make the bike "feel" for you and develop riding skills and set up knowledge.

- develop motorcycle where you have more to work on just to have reasonably consistent power.  Then try to focus on making the bike "feel" good.  

Or one could just go buy a 125GP bike.  The chassis is reasonably forgiving, they are powerful for their size, purchasing is reasonable, reasale is good.  Maintenance can be a bit more work, but with a motorcycle that weighs less than 170 pounds, nothing is really hard.

[grasshopper]

Chassis is the most important.

Building more powerful motors with various carb parts will require more work and money trying to tune it rather than focusing on the rider's issues and how the chassis works.

Quite simply, any chassis can suck.

And improvements can be made to any chassis, including old ones from the 60's or 70's.  Does not require new cartidge type forks, etc.  But there's more than one way to skin a cat.

If you're gonna start out, you've got choices.

- more of a basic motorcycle where it starts with a push button on makes reasonably consistent power.  Focus on how to make the bike "feel" for you and develop riding skills and set up knowledge.

- develop motorcycle where you have more to work on just to have reasonably consistent power.  Then try to focus on making the bike "feel" good.  

Or one could just go buy a 125GP bike.  The chassis is reasonably forgiving, they are powerful for their size, purchasing is reasonable, reasale is good.  Maintenance can be a bit more work, but with a motorcycle that weighs less than 170 pounds, nothing is really hard.

Uhhhmmm, Dave? The fellow was asking about a "SV650". Not that your post didn't make sense or anything, but, Have you drank your coffee this morning yet?

Back on topic:

About the SV650, K3 pretty much summed it up.

The bike is the best bang for the buck in the race community and for the street. BUY ONE! You wont be dissapointed. Aftermarket parts are endless and there is a vast network of poeple who ride them all over the world. Check out SVRIDER.COM

[ekraft84]

GSXR forks are not necessary to run fast.  I ran a '00 Superbike and an '04 Supersport and the 04 handled just as good, if not better than the '00 with stock (but reworked) forks.

An '03-'05 is faster stock than the older models, but there are definitely reliability issues with the motors.  If you get an '03-'05, you just need the right suspension setup to get going.  Get a good shock (I used Penske) and have someone setup the stock forks correctly (I used Max at Traxxion) and you can fly on the thing.

With more seat time, I believe I could have gone faster on the Supersport bike than I did on the Superbike.  I had the flatslides, built motor, etc. Just about anything you can do to a Superbike and I still think the '04 had more potential.

The SV is a great bike and perfect for starting out in racing ..

[dylanfan53]

I'll throw out here that you're not going to like the difference in power vs the R6 that you have (had).  Although, since you're starting out racing you may not notice it much.

A properly suspended SV will hang in there well in the corners and is a good bike to learn cornering, but the 600's will leave you behind at exits and straights.  Your ego will have to adjust.  At BHF experienced rider's lap times are about 3 -5 seconds slower.

Just keeping it real...

[ekraft84]

I'll throw out here that you're not going to like the difference in power vs the R6 that you have (had).  Although, since you're starting out racing you may not notice it much.

A properly suspended SV will hang in there well in the corners and is a good bike to learn cornering, but the 600's will leave you behind at exits and straights.  Your ego will have to adjust.  At BHF experienced rider's lap times are about 3 -5 seconds slower.

Just keeping it real...

You can finish in the top 10 of an amateur 600 race once you get going on it though ..

But yes, you'll get lost on the straight, but you can reel them back in everywhere else.

[PolishPete]

Thanks for the help guys.  Keep it coming.  I plan to race my six after I learn on the SV...for now it's my street bike...I'll learn on the SV, move my 6 to race, and buy something else for the stree then...that's the goal at least!!

[Speedballer347]

Last generation SV brakes SUCK!
New generation SV's grenade.

We have a stock motored (w/ M4 pipe) 00 SV w/ Ohilins rear and racetech emulators front.  Handles pretty good, but ain't the ultra-lite lithe-handler so many proclaim.  Feels like an old S10 pickup truck....real predictable and you always know what it's doing in a corner, but it sure aint no Vette.

Brakes were HORRIBLE till we upgraded the calipers, now stops on a dime.

Good bike to learn on.  Not much fun on the throttle.  imho, grids are thin.  
Best thing about the SV is you don't have to sell it and buy a new bike EVERY year to stay competitive in the class.

[Super Dave]

Uhhhmmm, Dave? The fellow was asking about a "SV650". Not that your post didn't make sense or anything, but, Have you drank your coffee this

Don't drink coffee.  Does that make me faster?

Everything I stated applies...other than the thought of a 125.

Per my child "Speedballer", the brakes might suck on old gen SV's, but that can be a set up issue where the bike does not transfer weight correctly.

Any bike is not just a sum of its parts.  How well it works is based on how the components are use.  Where as many riders look at each others fork heights, they fail, often to recogniae that there are variances in production pieces, tires, etc. that would actually vary the lenght of the fork assembly from the bottom triple clamp to the center of the front axle.  Then the relationship of different tires and the location of the rear asle in the swingarm also affects the whole issue of feel.  Then rear shock lengths.  Wanna talk spring rates?  There's a long list of potential issues that most riders don't explore.

[PolishPete]

Any way to learn all these set-up options/changes, or is this just something that takes a little time and some guess and check??

[Super Dave]

Yes and no.

http://4and6.com is who I use for my intial set up using a laser type set up that can measure the intial geometry and any frame tweaks.  Often, brand new motorcycles can be bent.  Yes.

They can initially optimize the chassis geomtery.  Additionally, with their vast experience in set up for correct spring rates dampening, etc., they can get one really, really close.

Still, you're gonna go track to track, changing gearing.  Most riders are placed into the mindset that it's all on their shoulders to ride around the bike.  Ride, ride, ride.  If were that way, then AMA Pro practice would just be riding around with no mechanics.  They wouldn't be necessary.

Can you learn it?  

I can't say.  A rider needs to learn a whine about the chassis.  If you can't do that, then probably not.  Most riders, when asked, say, "It feels fine, but I couldn't probably tell anyway.  I'm going too slow."  My response is that I could probably make two changes to the bike to make it virtually unrideable.  

Shameless plug.  Yes, I teach a school.  I don't teach with CCS.  Did for about eight years at various tracks.  However, the quick in-out nature of that kind of program didn't do anything personally for me, nor did it allow for much of anything other than a quick safety program.  

I've made changes with what I've done over the years.  Had full programs for many riders operating independently with a whole staff, working as a contractor to teams at AMA events to help the riders, I've been brought to race tracks to help with bike set up and to help riders set up.  I offer a good deal of ongoing help, IF the rider asks for it.  For a year after the program, it's free.  Sometimes after that too.

Anyway, it is about getting oneself into a proper mind set.  Some riders are satisfied with everything just the way it is.  Nothing is easy to learn, and add the sensory overload and intimidation of speed to that and you have motorcycle road racing.