Sv Suspension Set up

[gpstar1]

I'm trying to get my suspension dialed in and if I could get a little inside help that would be great. The problem I'm having now is that the bike wants to push through the turns and have to wrestle with it to hold a line. I also noticed that the rear tire is feathered after I am on it ( ripping / uneven wear). I have a SV 650 with gsxr 750 front forks and a Penske rear. Any help would be great.

[Super Dave]

With big changes like that, I usually recommend getting the geometry checked at a GMD place like http://4and6.com but that might be a hike for you.  Check into one of the other local GMD places.  

The different forks and triples can create weight bias and rake/trail problems.  Unless you have some kind of intuition on which way to go based on feel, you might experiement yourself to death.

Do you have the correct spring rate on the back?

[Gixxerblade]

Hey Chris. I don't know that much about suspension but I did find an a BBS about it that I like and its in Austaralia. I actually found a post pretty close to what you were asking about. http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=45537&subForumID=105037&action=viewTopic&commentID=3797786&topicPage=
Goes over front end push vs. ride heighth. Enjoy.  8)

[gpstar1]

Thanks Dave and Steve that helped some. I may try and take it to a local GMD or if CTR sus pension ( i think thats the name ) is at VIR  in the next couple of weeks I may have them take a peek at it.

[grasshopper]

13 7/8 inch rear ride height. If you have less than that the machine will not handle correctly.

The measurement is taken from eye to eye on the rear shock.

[Super Dave]

13 7/8 inch rear ride height. If you have less than that the machine will not handle correctly.

The measurement is taken from eye to eye on the rear shock.

Finish off the rest of the set up.

Which tires, what gearing, how long is your chain, effective length of forks along with fork modifications, spring rates, your weight, rider sag, and lap times.

[grasshopper]

Finish off the rest of the set up.

Which tires, what gearing, how long is your chain, effective length of forks along with fork modifications, spring rates, your weight, rider sag, and lap times.

I think he should seriously play with his rear ride height if the bike feels like its turning in sluggish. If he does have Penske you can bring the rear up substantially with that shock. 13 7/8 inches of ride height is where you want to be


Tires: I have had really good luck this year with Michelin Pilot Powers. Depending on how hot or cold it is I have been playing around with medium soft and soft rears, but I have been running a soft front all year. I did destroy a few front tires at Autobahn though.

Gearing? Depends, Base line for me is 15/44, I have had few different gears on this year because I needed to hold a gear a little longer before a corner so I played around with going up and down in the rear.

How long is my chain? When I change gears I have another chain, although I didn't play around too much this year with that, I try to keep the rear axle centered on the reference points on the swing arm. The bike has been working and feeling good with the rear axle there, so that's where I try and leave it.

The forks: I HAVE CONVENTIONAL FORKS, not GSXR forks like you. Try and get ahold of Zoran (he lurks on Svrider.com as TWF). Motorcycle Performance in Madison Wisconsin could help you get a rule of thumb measurement and set up for Gixxer forks on a SV. K3 mite be able to help you as well. I have played around a little with where I have the forks in the trees, and 5mm down feels the best, I had it at 10mm but it felt a little too squirly on turn in. I'm running .90 race tech springs, with 20 weight oil, and 5 turns in on my emulators. The forks are not perfect, but they are working OK for me now with my budget. Depending on the track I play with pre load accordingly.

I think I'm riding around front fork problems though by trailbraking in the corners to keep the front planted. Turning the emulators in more helped this, but the forks definitely need a little more work.

I weigh about 180 with all my gear on.

Rider sag: Rule of thumb, about 30mm in the rear and it felt a little better to stiffen the front up more so I have between 25 and 30mm in the front.

Lap times?

Blackhawk I'm running consistent low 19's and the occasional 18.

Gingerman I think I was running 30's, I could be wrong though, I did win there.

Autobahn on the south course I ran a few 34's and consistent 35's. North course I think I was running 09's

Not too concerned with lap times, just having fun, and making sure the bike and me are happy together.

I have room for a lot of improvement, but this set up has worked pretty damn good for me this year.

[damico]

Your first problem is you put a GSXR front end on it.  Secondly you gave no other info as to how the bike is set up.
Your problem is your ride height but at which end. The 13 and what ever eye-eye thing is not the answer. That guy is getting his info from hear-say, Just because thats how Ed has his bike set like that does not mean it will work for all Sv's. Ed's bike weighs close to 100lbs less than a stock Sv. Don't you think that changes things. Where are your sag numbers at, how is your weight bias set up. Are your trail numbers screwed up because you have the wrong triple clamps on your bike.
I think it's great how all these guys can "fix" your handling problems without asking these questions. At least Dave pointed you in the right direction.

[grasshopper]

Your first problem is you put a GSXR front end on it.  Secondly you gave no other info as to how the bike is set up.
Your problem is your ride height but at which end. The 13 and what ever eye-eye thing is not the answer. That guy is getting his info from hear-say, Just because thats how Ed has his bike set like that does not mean it will work for all Sv's. Ed's bike weighs close to 100lbs less than a stock Sv. Don't you think that changes things. Where are your sag numbers at, how is your weight bias set up. Are your trail numbers screwed up because you have the wrong triple clamps on your bike.
I think it's great how all these guys can "fix" your handling problems without asking these questions. At least Dave pointed you in the right direction.

Woooo!!!! Hold the phone! :o

Jason,

Nick Desautels here. I do understandnd that you have been in the game alot longer than me and are in fact a pretty fast and knowledgeable fellow. What you say about the gixxer front end does make perfect sense and how not enough questions were asked does also make sense. But the ride height recomendation I made is the rite direction for him to take 13 3/4 inch ride height to 14 inches of ride height is where he should be if his trail and weight bias #'s are correct.

What rear ride height do you or did you run on your SV Jason?

Instead of coming in and critisizing people maybe through around a few #'s for us.

What are the correct triple trees needed for a first generation SV to run a Gixxer front end?

What are the correct trail #'s

What kind of ride height would you like to see?

How do you correctly set your ride height on a first generation SV?

What about weight bias? Lets talk about it. Where to start with the gixxer front end installed.

See these are all the things people in the race scene like to keep their little secrets rite? It's all about winning. ANd the attitude is, find out yourself, I did! Rite?

The computrac is where he needs to take the machine before he does anything, there is no argueing about that.

[gpstar1]

Funny how you said computrac, because that is where the bike is going this winter. Its not that the bike is hard to ride or control, I do quite well on it usually placing at most events. I think it just needs some fine tuning and everything will be fine. The SV that I own is not your everyday stock SV this is a serious bike that i bought last year from a very fast racer.

[damico]

So Nick, like I said the info posted is wrong and useless UNLESS some more details are given. You can't ASSume his numbers are right,  or he wouldn't have a handling problem. Is that critisizing? If you think so? :-*
 13 3\4 - 14'' shock length is great for a stock front end bike After your sag numbers are set right, though not absolute(more on this later) and your front end has to be in the right spot(5-10mm up in the triples) and that depends on anything else done to the chassis or set up. This should leave the weight bias about 51-52% to the front, which is about right. Now lets say a GSXr (usd forks)front end is put on with stock GSXR triples. Depending on what year you used the rake and trail numbers can be almost an inch off. If your rake is pulled in one inch, and you have 13 3\4-14'' shock length in the rear the bike will be very unstable. It might still be ridable but no where near as forgiving as say a stock front end. You would want to run less rear shock length to gain back some of the stability.
Now back to 13 3\4 shock length. I built  AM lightweight champ Ryan Hall's suspension and motor on his SV and worked with him throughout the year on his set up. He used a revalved '97Gsxr rear shock that has no adjustment for ride height. We had to vary the front end ride height because we could not get 13 3\4 shock length,but we still got the 51% front end bias we wanted. Not only do his results show his bike worked, but just ask anyone else that rode it.
I do not even know what the rear shock length is on my SV because that number is irrelevant. I worry first about sag numbers and then weight bias and how the bike actually feels. I also run my bike generally high, meaning instead of pulling the forks up in the triples, I prefer to have the forks pulled up about 5mm and move the rear ride height around to get the weight bias at 51%.
Notice, I do not have a GSXR front end on my bike, I think there are very few benefits for a lot of hassle. I have no problem with the brakes on my bike and I think I have got the dampening working pretty well. The GSXR front end also weighs a ton compared to a stocker. If I was going to do it I would use a 00' GSXR 600 front end(right side up forks) like Kevin Vanengen used or use an R6 front end. I have ridden and worked on a ton of SV's and out of all of them, stock front end or not, Brian Mglaughlin's (04' SV #63 ex) with the stock front end is the best handling BIKE I have ever ridden. Funny that a lot of what I have learned about bike set up has come from him and we set are stuff up identically. And like Brian, I don't "keep little secrets". I will tell or show anyone that asks how my bike is set up or what is in my motors and I will help anyone set their own stuff up to the best of my ablilty. If I am going to beat you I would rather know that I beat you because I was a better rider not because my equipment is better. And I have no problem getting beat by someone I helped get their stuff figured out.
So I thought if I could use my time "in the game" to help someone out and clear up some  unclear  info that he was given, I should put my two cents in. I didn't have the time to sit and type a book on how to set up an SV, so I didn't give all the numbers and specifics. I asked the questions that needed to be answered before anyone could begin to steer him in the right direction.

PS: Nick, if you have a GSXR front end and would like help setting it up? Then in order for me to answer the other questions you put to me, you will need to answer some questions. What year and size GSXR front end? What triple clamps do you WANT to use? What shock is in your bike? Are there any other things done to the chassis, like different length dog bones?

Hugs and Kisses

Jason D'Amico #824 EX

[grasshopper]

Thanks for taking the time to write what you did! :D

All good advice and information. I'm running a stock front end and I feel I did pretty good against Ryan this year. I beat him once this year and all the other races I was chasing him, he has just a little more motor than me. Good Rider! Too bad he's not racing the SV next year because I'd really like a chance to improve my bike a bit and race against him and Dan Kane some more.

I agree with you about the Gixxer front end upgrade, seams like alot of hassle.

Thanks for throughing some #'s around, sounds like I'm on the rite track, a little more TLC to front end and it should help alot.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/nickbob43/Racing/Polar-Optics012.jpg


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