Come on...give us some tracks to race

[roadracer67]

While you compliment Roger on his track in New Mexico you fail to realize it IS his track , is it not?? Or at the very least he manages it, correct. I am sure if Randy Stem (the man in charge of the Southwest Region) owned his own track or managed one, that things would probably be a little diifferent. You have no clue as to what it takes to schedule tracks based on their availability or hiring employees who do this as a "HOBBY". I work for Randy because of my passion for racing motorcycles and the ton of respect I have for him. To me, this is not a hobby. This is a close as I can be to racing right now while not actually racing. Everyone who works in the Southwest Region busts their asses off every weekend to try and make things run as smooth as possible.  Yes, everyone wants a mirror smooth track with miles of run off, with thousands of fans lining the bleachers chanting your name as you grid for your race. Problem is, where are you going to find these types of tracks?

[Stone]

Shaking my head while I read the following....

"While you compliment Roger on his track in New Mexico you fail to realize it IS his track , is it not?? Or at the very least he manages it, correct. I am sure if Randy Stem (the man in charge of the Southwest Region) owned his own track or managed one, that things would probably be a little diifferent."

Thank you for once again proving my point. You dont have to ownership to run a racing organization correctly. Ownership does not automatically give you the key to success...effort and constant steps to improve your product does. To insinuate that Roger just "happen" upon his growth over the last year due to "ownership" is an insult to every effort he has made. I would be willing to bet that the challenges that Roger has in one month of owning his track makes corridinationg the CCS a cake walk.

What your basically stating is that because Roger owns his own track its more important to him. That if Randy owned his own track it would be better because he would have vested interest. Well, well...reads, smells and shows like this racing region is a weekend job.

Look I understand that this region cannot support full time employees. I understand that they work their rearends off on "the weekends". I also understand that there opportunities that if approached with some sort of effort and foresight that would make this region better by a 100%.

"You have no clue as to what it takes to schedule tracks based on their availability or hiring employees who do this as a "HOBBY"."

No I dont...that I agree upon...for the moment. But 17 years of business, speaking at business classes at major universitys about running a business and years of learning from the successes and mistakes gives me some creed. One thing that remains consistant throughout my business career is the basic formula that I presented in one of my first posts. In short....Half..s efforts get Half..s results.

"Yes, everyone wants a mirror smooth track with miles of run off, with thousands of fans lining the bleachers chanting your name as you grid for your race. Problem is, where are you going to find these types of tracks?"

 :-X Arghhh!!!! You see walls and make excuses. Me...when I come to a wall I dont turn around and throw my hands up in the air. I'll try to get over the wall, go around it...Heck...I'll even try to dig under it until I can make it past it and in some case...I just might blow it up. Point is...I keep pushing forward. Take the advice, take the steps, give a little more effort and see what ya get in return. That is all it comes down too.

Good luck guys...

[Super Dave]

Recognise that I'm a racer, and I don't represent any organization that sanctions races.

CCS requests scheduling dates well in advance.  CCS as a company owned by CCE does have certain restrictions, however, on some issues.  Contracts, etc., I believe that have particular time frames etc.  Those issues need to be taken up with CCE.

The proliferation of track day organizations blossomed early in this century.  It's a new thing, and there are occasions where they have muscled into dates previously only held by racing organizations.  Even club racing organizations find that it is necessary to have weekend dates just to have a staff and a few spectators.  Track day organizations used to be on weekdays, now they are paying extra to get prime weekend dates.  Made things a lot harder for racers and the racing organizations.

Racers seem to come in cycles.  Seldom do many racers stay in the sport longer than two to three years.  Reasons are too much travel, too much money, too much time.  Occasionally, too few tracks, but that alternative is easy to deal with by gettting another license and "going racing".

Even if some only delt with some of this racing stuff as a hobby, in the years that CCS has been around, pretty much everything has been tried.  In that time, racers still leave the sport at the same rate.

Loudon is a race track with very little run off and it's lined by walls.  They get probably 1000 entries for each event.  The other tracks that used to be "close" are now gone.  

I think there's a whole lot of business experience in CCS, AFM, WERA, etc.  Actually, I know that.  I'm not sure what you could propose that would substantially change anything.

...able to race at better tracks. Better product, more people race and the cost can be distributed to more racers and....bingo! CCS has more money to do things!

Some "better race tracks" cost unbelieveable amounts of money.  I don't own a racing organization, but I rent race tracks.  Something you might try doing yourself with some good ideas.  Honestly, it's very hard.  

There are times when renting a popular pro level track, even with extra entry fees, will still cost more than what can be brought in.  Then you've got to make that loss up with the good regular tracks where you get 400 to 600 entries at.  Not every event breaks even.

And then there are things that one can't explain.

Case in point, April of 2001 had the highest entry road race event ever at Road America, a pretty cool track that's on the AMA schedule...I hate the track myself, but that's another story, which CCS had like 2025 entries.  In May of that year, entries dropped of across the board.  My school program entries dropped off.  Was strange.  After talking, we recognized what those things were, but they were issues that were beyond anyone's control.  I won't get in to details.  You sound knowledgeable, you can figure it out on your own.

Everyone has an opportunity, also, that if they can do it better, put your money where your mouth is and go for it.

[rotoboge]

To me, this is not a hobby. This is a close as I can be to racing right now while not actually racing. Everyone who works in the Southwest Region busts their asses off every weekend to try and make things run as smooth as possible.  Yes, everyone wants a mirror smooth track with miles of run off, with thousands of fans lining the bleachers chanting your name as you grid for your race. Problem is, where are you going to find these types of tracks?

I agree, we need to make the best out of what is available to us now and enjoy it! ;)

[L8brake731]

About a month ago there was a post on this board that said something to the effect of "Discount on entry fees!". All that said, when most of us read the thread we found that it was as simple as helping promote our own club. Passing out flyers, posters and the like.
Some of us got pretty excited about the idea and jumped at the mere thought of being able to become more involved and to expand interests of other enthusiasts. We were glad that CCS had made a post on this board, only to find out the it was for the MW Region only, run by a different administration.

Dave mentioned: "CCS requests scheduling dates well in advance.  CCS as a company owned by CCE does have certain restrictions, however, on some issues.  Contracts, etc., I believe that have particular time frames etc.  Those issues need to be taken up with CCE."

I hope that this is an asumption based only on your "un-associated" relationship with CCS/CCE. This is a re-hashed subject and appearantly by all indications the SW will not survive with only 2 tracks to run, no help from CCS / CCE and a pallet full of rules or excuses that prevent our region to survive. What do they call it? Oh, yeah, "thinking out of the box". If CCS / CCE gave a $hit about this region, then why not try something new?

Track days you mentioned? Agreed, but where is the commitment to buck up from the producer to compete for the market to gain some profit (BIG picture)? (or break even). I don't see any movement from CCS / CCE to help the SW / Pacific survive. I have been involved in Track Days (in Ca. of all places!) are we still talking about $6500- for both days? How about in your neck of the woods? I don't know what it costs in the MW, MA, GP or FL.  

As for other the other clubs, AFM and WERA; what has been their formula for success? They are still in Ca.

No offense to the SW crew.  :)

[Super Dave]

Dave mentioned: "CCS requests scheduling dates well in advance.  CCS as a company owned by CCE does have certain restrictions, however, on some issues.  Contracts, etc., I believe that have particular time frames etc.  Those issues need to be taken up with CCE."

I hope that this is an asumption based only on your "un-associated" relationship with CCS/CCE. This is a re-hashed subject and appearantly by all indications the SW will not survive with only 2 tracks to run, no help from CCS / CCE and a pallet full of rules or excuses that prevent our region to survive. What do they call it? Oh, yeah, "thinking out of the box". If CCS / CCE gave a $hit about this region, then why not try something new?

First, I'll stand up for the CCS staff, even when I don't agree with them.  They are looking out for your region, and others.  Recognize that CCS staff members are as much "racers" as the ones that are on the track.  It's a lot of time off from something else they could be doing.  Some are former racers that decided that this would be a way of serving others like themselves, racers at one time.

Some of the  CCS regions in the west did not exist that long ago.  So, first, the fact that they are attempting to expand into a pretty saturated market of sorts is a gamble.  Meanwhile, in some areas of the Midwest, there is no other game than CCS;  WERA left years and years ago.

Potentially, right now, CCS is developing their schedule.  Tracks might even have the CCS dates in hand.

But, if Joe Blow's Track Riding dot com decides they really need a particular date...and they are willing to pay more...

Well, the game changes.  Or, the track is there to make money, the track ownership decides to promote an AMA event, a NASCAR event, whatever, that date will make maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars vs the regular track rental...

Then, one track has to make a change to the schedule...and the others have to change accordingly.  Sometimes, a date could get bumped.  

Regardless, contracts have to be signed.  Sometimes tracks drag their feet on this.  

Not fun and games.  Not like scheduling oil change appointments or hotel rooms...unless you're trying to do it near Laguna for the GP...I've had those kind of problems with my school...

[CCSRacer114]

Dave, look around on the schedule for other CCS regions. How many races do you see at Daytona for the regular florida region? ...

We get two races at Daytona (March and ROC)...

But we do get THREE races at Homestead each year (Homestead is much nicer).

Plus we get JenningsGP...

And hurricanes.

Hey, Four more reasons to move to Florida!  Yippee!

 ::)

[cstem]

I have been avoiding this post but cannot bear to anymore.  
Stone- we appreciate racers who think out of the box. In fact in the 20+ years I have worked with the SW region of CCS and PRRO before that, we have had 100's (no joke and probably a low stab) of racers with initiative.  I can count on two hands how many racers still race with us regulary who did five years ago.  Where is the racer's commitment?  I know that is not fair- you guys and girls pay lots of cash to race- but us boys and girls pay lots more in nearly free time to get you out there.  To say we are not commited is complete BS and I challenge you to look ANY CCS worker who has been standing in the rain or baking sun for two days making less than $7 an hour to help put on a race, and tell them they should take this more seriously.  If the home office cannot afford more people to work full time in the home office, can they afford to pay us to do the same out here?  Has Heidi Stem ever told you about Sunday nights where the weekends paperwork must be in to the CCE office by 5am?  No trouble, just an allnighter after a weekend of racing, and hey, she can do the things she should be doing during the week next weekend right? What a slacker that woman is...  Stone if you have trouble understanding, talk to in person or email or even call your  race director.  Or how about a nice professional letter to the CCE brass?  Haven't done that yet?  Did you grab any of the CCS cards at the last two races with tthe schedule on the back and distribute them to any rider/racers out there?  Have you done your part to help yet?  

As far as why a track day can rent a track for so little but we can't?  Insurance is much higher for a race than a 'test and tune" day.  Check your own life or medical insurance- probably does not cover 'racing' incidents (if I had a dollar for every racer who refused ambulance transport because his insurance would not cover a bill that started at a racetrack, must be why slip and falls have such a high incidence rate on Sat./ Sun.).  Stone, I welcome you to bring your new ideas in a nice written format so we can go over them with you and present them to Kevin for his approval who can then send them to CCE and when they are done totaling up the millions the of dollars Cher and the Gravedigger have made them, maybe they will invest a few million in CCS.  If you have great ideas though- seriously we will listen, but do not get hurt IF we say it has been tried.  Meanwhile I will go to sleep now, I have a long day of not giving a sh#t about CCS and its racers to do tomorrow.  Man, wonder how that will pay the mortgage?

[Super Dave]

Yeah, baby!

Agreed...as a one of the few racers that's been around a lot longer than two, five, or ten years...

[cstem]

Now that I have slept on that answer, of which I retract nothing, I have this to add.

Stone- you are absolutely right that Firebird is okay on the East track (and improved from earlier years), the West track is horrible-(but if you want to race..)
and the Main track is about as dangerous as a rider makes it ( act like a fool across the dragstrip turn 14 and you will eat wall- the race is not won there).  At CCSSW (cannot speak for other regions) we are trying to take more of the everyday management into our own hands, at least as much as the home office will allow it, in order to help serve our racers (read customer- owning ones own business is not the only way to understand marketing).  This or course will take time.  Things have never been better than they are now for SW region racing. Thanks to Roger, we have added a new venue ( and a nice one), and since you are new, you will not remember when LV had barb wire at both ends, chainlink everywhere else and potholes with cones stood in them so racers would not hit them- so much for progress. LV is much better (and not a parking lot for 'Neck-car anymore thanks to guys like Randy, Dale Keiffer and Jim Cox-not to mention some dude named Freddie)  If you stick around Stone (Latebrake can vouch for this) things will slowly improve.  Hopefully not to slow, but there are many things still out of our control.  i make no excuses for the tracks we have- they are what they are- we don't own them.  I can offer reasons (not excuses) why we do not travle to Utah remember Thunderhill?  We could not get racers to travel there. Been to Willow Springs or buttonwillow?  Same thing.  We are flattered and happy that you chose to spend you r money with us but some racers don't have the funding (most racers are sponsored by Visa) to travel everywhere- especially at 6 MPG at 2.50+ a gallon for gas.  See you at the races!!

[blugrl19]

This is our first year with CCS and I can say that I have been truly disappointed with the way things have been run, NOT on the part of Randy or any of the CCSSW local people, BUT on the part of the Ft. Worth office.   Heck, the SW region points STILL don't reflect the points from the May 15 ASMA/CCS combined race and I've been calling Ft. Worth for 2 months now trying to get the situation fixed, but I seem to get blown off by a new excuse each time.  (Sorry, Tiff & Linda, but I've e-mailed and called both of you numerous times trying to get this issue resolved.)

As far as tracks go, I guess if we had more experience on a wider variety of tracks I could voice an opinion, but right now I can't.

Promotion?  Is that the promoters responsibility or the riders?  I think it's a little iof both.  Saying that, however, I think part of the problem is just lack of media attention and interest from the general public.  I know we have tried to get people we know to attend races, but most of them don't want to take the time or spend the gas money to travel 2+ hours from where we live to see a race.  We've even offerred to pay the gate fee for some of them.  They think it's cool that we do it and all, but that's about as far as it goes.  (Yet some of these same people will travel the same distance or farther AND pay more money to see a Nextel Cup or Busch race.  Hmm, does that say something?)

As said before, it seems that CCS is the redheaded stepchild of CCE, and CCSSW is the redheaded stepchild of CCS.  Would like to see it change, but I don't have the money or connections to make that happen, so for now I'll work with the organizations we've got as best we can.

[Super Dave]

Sandi...

Some good info...

Excuses...yes, seems to be lots of them, but no one willing to own up to them.  As this is your first year, I'll tell you that I have not seen many changes.  The web is "new" to CCS, but it certainly lags way behind compared to other road racing organizations.  The excuses are there.  Doesn't change the fact that riders continue to be frustrated.  Rather than updates in some reasonable fashion with regularity, those updates are rare.  When they happen, everyone hopes that it will continue that way, but it doesn't happen.

Promotion?  CCS is a sanctioning body, not a promotor, except when it has to do with FUSA.  So, their "money", which isn't much, is made from rider entry fees, gate fees, etc.  So, as I always say, if you want to promote as the rider, you should.  But don't promote to see "motorcycle road racing", promote your program of value, as it should have a value to your sponsors.

CART was a great example.  CART the organization was horrible as a sanctioning body.  But the teams spent a whole lot promoting individual sponsors for their teams and where they were going to race next.

When people go to see a race, they go to see personalities...

How many people went to see the Yamaha M1 at the USGP?

I'd put a lot of money on the fact that they wanted to see Rossi on the M1.

When you go to a race, you're looking for those personalities.  Motorcycling in the US is a bit sterile on that front.  Only recently have they started to recognize that and track promoters started putting images of top riders.  A funny thing was a few years ago, the image that was used to promote an AMA National road race was the image of a racer that the AMA tore down and "deemed" illegal...

It's hard to get people to come see races unless they feel motivated in someway.  if you can infect people with how much fun your program is to watch...hey, that's the trick.