Lean angles; Dirt vs Road

[Super Dave]

It is.

[Green_Knight]

Ok... heres a question...  Might sound dumb but here goes...

My first track day at MAM I high sided my zx6rr in the last turn (T14?).  It happened so fast I thought I had low sided.  After I picked myself up I realised I had gone farther than my bike.  So I was like WTF?!  How did I pass my bike if it weighs more?  Then they told me I high sided.  Pretty spectacular photos if you haven't seen them already, lol.

So the last day I was at the track this season I feel the back end slide WAY out coming through that same corner.  I just ride it out and make it just fine leaving a nice big black mark.

Now I realise there were different certumstances...  I was a bit more skilled than my first track day but I didn't think enough to be able to drive through a slide like that.  I also had brand new Bridgestone 002's on the first track day and the last one I had 002's on that had 3 track days on them and were worn down to the ware marks on the sides.  The first track day was before I had the PC tuned to have a smoother power dilivery on the roll on, and it was also before I spent 2 days with Dave tuning the suspention.

Now... my question...  Why could I feel the rear slide out and ride it out, avoiding a high side, the 2nd time and the first time I was thrown off before I even knew what happened?

Is it because the set up?  Is it the way the worn tire was gripping or not gripping?

[Super Dave]

Having had experience with your set up, yeah, that's going to be part of feel.

When anything happens, it's going to take you a moment to recognize that something is happening, then you've got to decide what you're going to do, then do it.

Given that your previous set up didn't have "a lot of feel", your chassis was way out of shape when you started to realize that things weren't right.  By then, the CG of the bike past a point where it could not be pulled back into alignment to keep it upright.

Your new chassis set up supported you better, and it offered feel.  So, your recognition of something going wrong was just a bit sooner where you could stay in control.

Certainly, a little experience for you can help over come some of the sensory overload that you had the first time our.  Can help your reaction times being a little familiar with things.

One can still beg a set up issue:

If your surrent set up supports you on worn tires with the spring rate you have....

When you add the extra traction of a good new tire, the chassis can get loaded more...

Sp, do you really have the correct spring rate for your set up?

[grasshopper]

Now... my question...  Why could I feel the rear slide out and ride it out, avoiding a high side, the 2nd time and the first time I was thrown off before I even knew what happened?

Is it because the set up?  Is it the way the worn tire was gripping or not gripping?

LOL!!!! I'd say you got Lucky....

[JBraun]

First, dirt bikes and motard bikes have more ground clearance than do street/roadrace bikes. By leaning the bike and the rider more upright requires more clearance. By the rider moving to the inside, the bike has to be leaned less than if the rider didn't.

You'd be suprised how little ground clearance a motard bike has. The pegs drag almost instantly. and if you hit a bump mid corner it's nothing to drag the frame.
If you look at one on a stand they seem super tall, but once you get all that suspension compressed in a corner they start dragging parts real fast.

[JBraun]

Now... my question...  Why could I feel the rear slide out and ride it out, avoiding a high side, the 2nd time and the first time I was thrown off before I even knew what happened?

Is it because the set up?  Is it the way the worn tire was gripping or not gripping?

A highside happens when the rear tire comes out far enough to go past the steering lock. If you could turn your front wheel 90 degrees to the rear wheel, you'd never highside. That's why dirt trackers always lowside when they go down. They have a ton of lock to lock travel.
The second time you probably just reacted faster or the tire didn't step out far enough.
Your first crash may have been rider interference too. Most of the time if a rider crashes and has no idea why, he was riding over his head...

[Super Dave]

A highside happens when the rear tire comes out far enough to go past the steering lock.

No, it isn't.  Re think it.

You can put the bike to the steering lock and go down on the low side.

[JBraun]

No, it isn't.  Re think it.

You can put the bike to the steering lock and go down on the low side.

True, there are other variables, I'm just saying that as long as the front wheel is pointing straight, you won't highside. You might get kicked out of the seat, but the bike won't highside.

[Super Dave]

It's all reated to where the bike's cg is at and traction.

Riders usually highside way before the bike ever reaches the locks.