Ducati 748 - 998 Reliability Question

[8Ball]

Hey Guys,

2nd year SW Expert - 1st time discussion board.

Been spoiled racing near bullet proof GSXRs for years now, but I may want to "shift gears" and try something much different. I am thinking of a Ducati998 (RC51 is too expensive to make light). But I am worried about reliability - especially for a club level. Almost no-one in my region races them regularly so I have nothing to base an opinion from. Any feedback/input would be greatly appreciated!

Incidentally, I am fully aware of the expense to maintain and fix crash damage..but I really would like input about their powertrain and transmission reliability/durability??

BTW - Responses including, but no limited to, "They Suck, don't buy one", are considered appropriate. LOL.  :D

Thanks!
8Ball
Joe Dawson #888

[tcchin]

I wouldn't think that there would be much difference in weight between the RC51 and the 998. The difference in price between the two could finance quite a few RC51 parts, though.

My teammate has raced a 748 for two seasons now. Other than a big-end bearing failure and some flaking rocker arms (it was a salvage-title bike, the history of which we knew nothing, so it wasn't a complete surprise), the bike's been very reliable. From what I understand, you actually get used to performing valve adjustments on those things, and they can be completed fairly quickly once you know what you're doing.

[Xian_13]

Though I  don't race my Duc...

http://www.mbpducati.com/

They have much better Shim keepers... Say good bye to all the value adjustments

[Thingy]

Hopefull Kevin Hanson will post a reply to your question.  Over the last three years, my three friends have raced Ducatis.
Jason - 996 - 2001 GLRRA EX Supertwins Champion
Brian - 748 - 2001 CCS AM Supertwins Champion
Kevin - 748 & 996 - 2002 CCS EX Champion

From what I saw over the weekends, the only normal problem was regular valve service and the replacement of rocker arms.  (the plating comes of and they need to be replaced)  Other than that, they seemed bulletproof.  They also crash very well.  Of course, parts are more expensive...

Hopefully, Matt will reply as well.  He is 'The Other'  :) Supertwins Champ this year.  He works at a Ducati shop and works on them.

[ceesthadees]

Am I taking crazy pills, or did you just say that you want to race an 998 Duck instead of an RC51 because of cost?

Buy an RC51, spend $5 large all the titanium you can stand, crash it, fix it, crash it fix, then take what is left out of the $20,000 you would spend on a race ready 998 and take a trip to the Bahamas.

(Sorry about the sarcasm, just couldn't help myself!)

[bweber]

Race the 998!  The new 998's and even the 2001 996's have a new type of rocker arm that Ducati says significantly reduces or eliminates the flaking.  You should not have to replace the rockers on a 998, even after racing the bike for a season. Valve adjustments are part of ant motorcycle maintenance, and on a Ducati all you need to do in change a shim, which is easier to get to than on GSXR's.
As far as crashing, the Ducatis hold up very well.  With a sturdy steel trellis frame and strong OEM forks and clamps, you rarely have more than simple cosmetic damage.  Cycle-Cat frame sliders work ok, but even without them, the clip-ons take most of the abuse.  The stock clutch covers are too flimsy and can get pushed into the clutch pressure plate and break the spring studs.  A billet aluminum clutch cover will remedy that problem.  
Go with Woodcraft rearsets and replacement handlebars or complete clip-ons, Cycle-Cat frame sliders and their billet clutch cover, and a GP-Tech race front fairing stay and it will be a solid racebike that will hold up well in crashes.  I say Woodcraft rearsets because they are the cheapest and hold up just as well, if not better than others like Fast By Ferracci.  The GP-Tech fairing stays have replaceable ears but most of the time they bend and don't break.  Cycle-Cat's frame sliders are the only ones I have seen available for the ducati.
I raced a Ducati for a year after racing CBR600's and a TL1000R.  I did well and had zero mechanical problems on the 748.  I got a new GSXR750 for 2002 and after the first race weekend in March, I wanted my Ducati back!  The 'zook just did not handle nearly as well as the Ducati and was not as fun on the track.  I purchased a wrecked 748 to have fun with.  You get spoiled racing a Ducati, the front-end feel is incredible and they handle like no other bike I have raced.
Go with the 998 and I don't think you'll be disappointed!  Good luck.

[diesel748]

I have only been on the track with a giggy 600. This year my nice 01 748s street bike is in the process of becoming a race bike. I have the Cycle Cat frame slidders and Graves rear sets, Graves also has a nice faring bracket to get rid of that bucket up front. I have two words for you SLIPPER CLUTCH! STM, Ducati, FBF they all make them the STM is by reputation probably one of the better slippers.
 
Good luck with whatever you decide ( hopefully we will see another duck out rac'n)

[khanson]

Joe,

I raced a 748 two years ago and a 996 this year.  Don't waste your time on an RC51, you can't make that thing competitive no matter what you do. If you don't believe me, ask Max!

I did 16 weekends on my Ducati this year.  Every 4-5 weekends I had the valves checked by MCC in Chicago.  I only replaced 3 rocker arms all year.  Halfway through the year, I pulled the motor and had the cases split.  The only thing needed to be replaced and wasn't that bad were the rod bearings.  The thing was bulletproof and MCC really took care of me.  Great dealership.

The 998 is supposed to be even better because the valvetrain is supposed to be easier on parts.

I purchased Woodcraft rearsets and cycle cat frame sliders and billet clutch cover.  The frame sliders and rearsets save the tank and bodywork.  The stock clutch cover smashes in during a crash and breaks the spring tabs off.  The billet one sticks out farther and is 10x stronger.

Woodcraft rearsets are way more durable than anything else.  I'm also a dealer if you want some, I'll work a Duc buddy a deal.

Ducati's crash very well.  I lowsided mine at around a 100mph and the thing flew through the air, slammed on it's side and then flipped end over end once into the weeds.  The only damage was some broken plastic, bent handlebar, and ground down footpeg.  The worst damage was a bent radiator that I raced with the rest of the year. Try that with a jap bike.  The exhaust are also protected very well.

I also raced GSXR's this year and they don't give you anywhere near the front end feel.  

I'd be more than glad to help you with setup stuff on the bike. I had to figure everything out on my own and have run the gamment regarding adjustments. :)

[EX#996]

Ducati's crash very well.  I lowsided mine at around a 100mph and the thing flew through the air, slammed on it's side and then flipped end over end once into the weeds.  The only damage was some broken plastic, bent handlebar, and ground down footpeg.  The worst damage was a bent radiator that I raced with the rest of the year. Try that with a jap bike.  The exhaust are also protected very well.

Unfortunately from personal experience, SV650's crash very well on a low side also.  (Paul was doing some testing at RA in the carosel)  Hopefully we will not need to do any futher testing next year.    ;)

Dawn  

[tcchin]

I guess we haven't been quite as lucky regarding crash durability of the 748's. The water pump housing/left side engine cover was destroyed, the right side engine mounting lug fractured, and the frame twisted, all from a 40 MPH low-side at Thunderhill. Even though the rider was unhurt, the damage to the bike was so extensive that his weekend was over. Repairs were expensive and lengthy and, according to the frame shop, typical.

[ceesthadees]

Yeah Tim,

I think we are dealing with the "My Baby is Not Ugly Syndrome". People that buy Ducatis and Saabs are often inflicted with this disease when their mind is in a desperate struggle to resolve the guilt associated to dropping a pile of money needlessly, just trying to impress. Sad..., Sad...

[bweber]

 ???Ceesthadees, what is sad is your response.  Someone asked a question and a few Ducati owners answered honestly.  You must have nothing better to do than make up idiotic metaphors for our responses.  
Any bike can get totaled in a slow speed crash.  No manufacturer makes a frame that is indestructible. A teammate of mine races a 2000 GSXR750.  He low-sided in T6 at Blackhawk and totaled the frame and subframe.  Dave Ebben crashed his GSXR at Road America in T7 and collapsed one of the frame spars; both racers walked away unhurt but neither could ride their GSXR again that weekend.
I had both a 2001 GSXR750 and a Ducati 748 for 2001 and I spent more on the GSXR to make it competitive.  Were not talking a superbike budget, I just mean little things like steering damper, suspension, gearing, engine cases and other items that all add up.  A box stock Ducati is pretty much race ready and competitive from the start.
If we are just trying to impress, you must just be just trying to provoke...sad indeed. :-[

[bweber]

BTW, I don't think Kevin Hanson was "just trying to impress" this year when he took a 99 996 and won three Expert Supertwins championships.  Prior to Hanson owning the 996, Jason Knupp raced that same bike, completely stock, for two years and won a GLRRA Expert Supertwins championship.  They both whooped a bunch of RC51's in the process.  
I just noticed that Ceesthadees is an amateur.  I wonder how much experience and knowledge is in his head?  I doubt it is it enough to back-up his mouth that obviously must get him in trouble.

[ceesthadees]

Oh now, now. I am just kidding around. Everybody knows it 99% rider, 1% bike. I have a lot of friends with Ducks and I give them the same sort of ribbing.

The only point I was making is that Ducati's are a expensive for racing at the club level and they have the same crash issues as the Japanese bikes.

btw. I have only been racing bikes for two years, been riding them for 26.

"idiotic metaphors", ouch!

[tcchin]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but Ducatis just seem to be a little less forgiving of gravity than 'normal' bikes (gratuitous Darryl Gates reference). I have prepared and repaired my share of R6's, GSXR's, ZX6's and CBR's and not once have I had to take to a motor with a tig welder to repair a bisected mounting lug. Unfortunately, this is alleged to be a common affliction in crashed Ducatis, and we're batting 1000 so far in that regard with our 748. The scary thing is that the cracked lug went unnoticed until the frame shop looked for it specifically as part of their standard Ducati crash damage inspection.

[tcchin]

As for the idiotic metaphors, what else is there to do in Florida in the offseason??

As a side note, if we were talking about racing a 999 or 749, then indeed the baby would be quite ugly. Capable, perhaps, but profoundly ugly.