prepping a buell xb12r or xb9r

[bentforks]

what is needed to make these bikes competive and how much is the cost

thanks

[AM_#726]

A great rider...and a dealer to back you with parts :D J/K the best person to ask would be DIAZ!!!

[jp233]

Buy about 6 motors, that should get you through a month or two.

Don't forget to buy stock in Amsoil or whatever oil you use, with how many times you blow the motor you will be going through a lot of oil !!!!

And don't forget a huge box of earplugs. Buy stock in an earplug company also.

 ;D

[Al_Soran]

Several ways to prep the bike depending on how much you want to spend, your riding level/expectations, etc-

For me- stock 03 XB9R with factory racing exhaust and ecm, XB12R airbox cover, belly pan, Nissan front brake pads and Michelin slicks. I retained the stock belt drive for now and have just recently installed a Penske rear shock and will have the forks reworked in the next week or so. I weigh 205lbs, so in order to obtain the correct sag numbers we had to max out the preload front and rear. This still left the front a bit soft for my liking, so I'm doing the suspension upgrades. I do think that if you weigh 140 to 160 the stock suspension will do well for awhile, but I highly recommend upgrading the front brake pads.

You can order the Buell XB belly pan and Nissan brake pads from Buell racing manager Henry Duga.  
 
email him at: henry.duga@buell.com
 
or
 
call 262-642-2986 and have him paged.

The bike will be competitive in class with the typical SV. However, you'll note a bit of a disadvantage in gearing selection with the belt drive, requiring you to modify your riding style for the specific track.

As for previous post regarding fragging motors- I have over 5000 miles on mine with several trackdays and races with absolutely no problems with oil loss through leakage or burning.

[thunderracing91]

I am in the process of prepping a XB9r myself.  Since I work at a H-D dealership getting parts shouldnt be too much of a problem.............. ;)

[Mark Bernard]

Paul James is the man to answer your questions about the XB's. I am meeting him at MAM later today for this weedends races. He probably won't be on the board here till Tuesday. Mark B.

[bentforks]

ttt

[PJ]

what is needed to make these bikes competive and how much is the cost

thanks

The XB12R is legal and pretty competitive in all the LW classes (SS, SB, GP) as well as GT Lights and Thunderbike.

Unless you invest some money into the motor, the XB9R is not nearly as competitive. Both bikes are legal for the same classes, so there is no advantage to buying the 9 over the 12, unless you plan to build the motor into a 1050 or something where the shorter stroke helps it rev quicker.

The stock suspension is really good. Top shelf fully adjustable Showa forks and shock with remote res. The chain drive swingarm conversion, as noted above, is an expensive option. Not sure it's worth it, especially for a newer rider.

Happy to answer any questions you have. You can PM me anytime.

[bentforks]

i was just wondering what needs to be done to be competive in fusa thunder bike
i already race an sv i just like the buell contingency plan
thaks

[grasshopper]

Take it to Valley Racing in Beecher Il.

Or call them and ask, Brian Conley is a professional with building race bike motors, especially Harley motors.

Just give him a ring and fire a few questions at him.

That way you can get a direct answer instead of waiting for one on the internet

708-946-1440

[smoke]

Bentf

1. What are you going to do with the SV if you go buell?  I may know someone who will buy it at the end of the season  ;) ;) ;D ;D U know where I live

2.  The harley shop here in frederick does work and race prep on buells.. they have one rider I think.  

M

[bentforks]

my i sv i will keep for suzuki contigency  ;)

Bentf

1. What are you going to do with the SV if you go buell?  I may know someone who will buy it at the end of the season  ;) ;) ;D ;D U know where I live

2.  The harley shop here in frederick does work and race prep on buells.. they have one rider I think.  

M

[PJ]

i was just wondering what needs to be done to be competive in fusa thunder bike
i already race an sv i just like the buell contingency plan
thaks

Competitive in CCS Thunderbike is one thing. A fairly stock XB12R is competitive out of the box.

F-USA Thunderbike is a whole other story. Define competitive. There are several top level riders with serious efforts in F-USA T-bike. Dave Estok, Bryan Bemisderfer, Dan Bilansky and others are tough to beat. How much do you want to spend? That said, the class is horsepower and weight restricted, so HP isn't everything.

I have run my mostly stock Supersport legal XB in the F-USA Thunderbike class for fun and finished in the top 10.

If you want a fast, reliable Buell, contact Hal's Speed Shop. They build great motors. 1-800-966-4443 or go to //www.halspa.com

[pmoravek]

The way I understand it...the contingency programs are really good for the Buells. If this is the case, would any of you guys be willing to give us some details?

[PJ]

In F-USA Thunderbike, Buell pays $8,000 per event, with payback to 15th place. Plus a $6,500 championship bonus paid back to 5th. F-USA also pays a $2,000 purse per event and a $5,500 championship bonus.

In CCS Thunderbike, Buell has paid every event, expert and amateur, every weekend (including all twin sprints) in all regions since April 20.

Expert payout is $400 for 1st; $300 for 2nd; $200 for 3rd; $150 for 4th and $100 for 5th.

I believe Amateur payout is $300 for 1st; $200 for 2nd; $100 for 3rd; $75 for 4th and $50 for 5th.

The payout is cash (check) and they are prompt.

[pmoravek]

Is this paid regardless of the number of competitors in the field?
 :o

[Mark Bernard]

Is this paid regardless of the number of competitors in the field?
 :o

Yes

[PJ]

No minimum number of riders per event and any year and model Buell is eligible.

http://www.buell.com/en_us/mania/racing/racingsupport.asp

[Al_Soran]

PJ

You're correct on the payouts. Just curious what "prompt" means. The info from Buell was that it took 6 to 8 weeks, they got my Vendor number to me quickly and I expect to see a check for our June 5th event within the next month. So is prompt within their time frame of 6 to 8 weeks? If so, not bad considering the communication that have to occur from CCS to Buell.

BTW- any suggestions regarding ride height on the XB9R? Just installed a Penske rear shock and reworking the forks.

Thanks again,

[thunderracing91]

Several ways to prep the bike depending on how much you want to spend, your riding level/expectations, etc-

For me- stock 03 XB9R with factory racing exhaust and ecm, XB12R airbox cover, belly pan, Nissan front brake pads and Michelin slicks. I retained the stock belt drive for now and have just recently installed a Penske rear shock and will have the forks reworked in the next week or so. I weigh 205lbs, so in order to obtain the correct sag numbers we had to max out the preload front and rear. This still left the front a bit soft for my liking, so I'm doing the suspension upgrades. I do think that if you weigh 140 to 160 the stock suspension will do well for awhile, but I highly recommend upgrading the front brake pads.

You can order the Buell XB belly pan and Nissan brake pads from Buell racing manager Henry Duga.  
 
email him at: henry.duga@buell.com
 
or
 
call 262-642-2986 and have him paged.

The bike will be competitive in class with the typical SV. However, you'll note a bit of a disadvantage in gearing selection with the belt drive, requiring you to modify your riding style for the specific track.

As for previous post regarding fragging motors- I have over 5000 miles on mine with several trackdays and races with absolutely no problems with oil loss through leakage or burning.

What is the advantage of running the 12R airbox ???

[Al_Soran]

The 12R airbox cover is designed with a cone over the throttle body. This change seems to improve midrange power and responsiveness by modifying airflow into the throttle body. A pretty cheap mod ($32.00) all things considered.

[Rhun]

is the airbox change legal for ccs superstock LW?

[Al_Soran]

Rhun,

The airbox change isn't legal for superstock.
I run this bike in LW GP, LW Superbike, LW Formula 40 and Thunderbike.

[ecumike]

what is needed to make these bikes competive and how much is the cost

thanks

The best way... sell it and buy a different bike.  :P :o :D


J.K.

[PJ]

PJ

You're correct on the payouts. Just curious what "prompt" means. The info from Buell was that it took 6 to 8 weeks, they got my Vendor number to me quickly and I expect to see a check for our June 5th event within the next month. So is prompt within their time frame of 6 to 8 weeks? If so, not bad considering the communication that have to occur from CCS to Buell.

BTW- any suggestions regarding ride height on the XB9R? Just installed a Penske rear shock and reworking the forks.

Thanks again,

Hmm. Let's see. I just got my checks for the last two Blackhawks in May. So it would seem 6-8 weeks is about the turn around. More than I can say for some other contingency sponsors...

I'll PM you my ride height numbers. Don't have them handy right now.

[Al_Soran]

PJ

Thanks for the info and I'll be looking out for the ride height info.

[L8brake731]

Hey Ed:

If you are running the factory racing exhaust, you have to buy me some ear plugs! When FUSA was out with us last year, I remember talking to one of the Buell riders and they said the bikes were pushing 100 hp.

With all the Buell money going around, I am still thinking about running one. I know that there is a lot of local support around here.

You can also purchase some tear-offs for me when you start running in front of me ;D. I hate looking through an oily face shield.

[Rhun]

Since EBC, Ferodo and Vesrah pay contingencies and not Nissin.  Have any of you used these brakes on your Buell's? If so what modells? How would you compare them?

[Al_Soran]

Hey Steve-

I was looking for my dyno sheet from the run Ledesma did for me a few months back but can't find it. I think we were putting out 93 hp at the wheel and 70lbs torque, but I don't recall. The biggest problem I had in june was handling. We have since put on a Penske shock, and Kevin is reworking the front forks for me. I'll be doing a trackday on Aug 7th before the trip to Vegas, hopefully have it all sorted out. As for earplugs, I thiink there is a spare set in my tool box- and don't worry about tear-offs, it'll be awhile before I'm leading you, unless of course you guys are lapping me again! :'(  Besides- I haven't lost any oil since I've owned the bike (2 years and 5500 miles).

Rhun- my only expereince with pads have been the stock units and the Nissans at the recommendation of Henry Duga. I like the Nissans alot on this bike, but run and EBC rotor and pad set-up on my Kawasaki. You'll have to try them all for yourself and decide.

[PJ]

Since EBC, Ferodo and Vesrah pay contingencies and not Nissin.  Have any of you used these brakes on your Buell's? If so what modells? How would you compare them?

I've used EBC and Nissin on my XBs. I don't believe Vesrah makes pads for Buells yet. Ferodo, I dunno.

The EBCs are fine, but I can scorch a set in one weekend. The Nissin kit pads seem to last much longer and give, arguably, better initial bite. But, as you said, they don't offer contingency.

[Rhun]

The nissin's from buell through my harley shop are about $110 EBC that I have seen are much less around $35 but I don't know the specif model.. As I am going to run in superstock my abuse factor should be lower than you thunderbike guys. Do you know which model, name or part number, that the EBC or the nissin's or any others were and if you used the stock XB rotor?

[PJ]

Stock rotor works fine. 3 seasons, including endurance racing, on mine and it still works great.

Sorry, I don't know the p/ns for the Nissin or the EBC pads. I've always heard the Nissins referred to as the race kit pads. EBCs were their top of the line race pad, whatever they call it, I don't know.

[Al_Soran]

$110 seems a bit steep for the pads... I think I paid $70 or so for the set.
As for rotors, the stock one is fine, I've had no issues with it, and the braking action really isn't all the different from my Kawasaki in terms of overall feel.
Good luck getting the bike set up, I'm sure you'll enjoy racing it.

PJ- I got the numbers- thanks!  ;D

[randyr]

seriosly, u need backing.end of story. ive been racing buells for for the last few yrs. there are a few guys who know what there doin when it comes to building a competitive bike but ive been through 3 motors in 5 race weekends and these were all built by the supposed experts.no one guaruntees their motors. they're great handling and the torque is great but absolutely unreliable.  expect dissapointments and possibly missing quite a few race weekends. plan on at least 2 bikes or 1 bike and a $30,000 budget.  I hear ducati pays well also.....good luck

[Baltobuell]

Man, I don't know if that was called for. I raced a stock motor for a year with no problems in an old X1 when they were supposidly time bombs. When I got too big for my brithces and thought I needed more hp I learned that,  more hp = shorter engine life. You may be into top level racing, I don't know. But I don't care what you ride, if you're pumping  up a inline 4 to extremes it ain't gonna last. The thing with Buell is there are hundreds of guys with the "Hot set up" to get more hp. Every bonehead in the backyard knows how to mill a head stick in hot cams or install popup pistons. They are like hopping up a lawnmower. But very few know how to get the right combination for the right torque curve. My last engine had 110 hp but came on like a 2 stroke and I couldn't hardly ride it. FWIW stick to the stock cams and you'll have better lap times, better longevity, and money for tires. Blaming Buell for mistakingly letting the wrong guy setup your engine isn't right.

[randyr]

hey wise guy, would you call Hals, & Harding H-D the wrong guys?  when you become competitve, we'll talk

[Al_Soran]

Well.... last I checked I was still racing CCS Lightweight classes against a bunch of SV's. So I think the stock set up and some suspension mods work quite well on the club racing scene. I'm just out to have a good time and ride against a great group of people with out breaking the bank. BTW, my XB has over 6000 miles of high speed highway travel, trackdays, and CCS events with out even a hiccup. I just change the oil after race weekends and tires as needed. So if you are serious about Formula USA or AMA type competition, by all means drop some cash at Hal's, they deliver great service and awesome motors... but at the club level, $5000. can be better spent elsewhere.

Cheers,

[Baltobuell]

Dam*, In 2 posts there are a reason to not miss racing, and a reason I do.

[Al_Soran]

Balto- funny you should say that.

After spending time in the mid 80's riding for a very competitive endurance team in CRRC/WERA, I burned out on trying to meet the expectation of others, the hectic schedules, etc and hung up my leathers for what I thought was for good. Having a child to raise made the decision even easier. But you know what? I found out last year just how much I missed racing...funny what a trackday can do to you. So after 16 years I decided to buy an old EX500 for trackdays so I wouldn't wad my Buell, and started riding trackdays on it. Unfortunately, most racers around here frequent the trackdays and hanging out with them further enforced what I suspected...it wasn't just the racing I missed, but the people. This time, I'm not losing sight of why I came back, and won't get caught up in the hoopla of wanting to be the next Hayden, Rossi or Edwards (in my day it was Polen, Schwantz, James, etc) and just concentrate on having fun. With that said, I don't chase the latest, greatest bikes, I ride in the lowly Lightweight classes, and most importantly- I have fun! I encourage most to do the same, and to not worry about being the next MotoGP star. Once it becomes a business it loses a little of its luster and starts feeling like a job. Don't get me wrong- the next superstars are amoungst us, and they'll rise to the top as they always do, but for the rest of us it's a time to ride fast, swap racing stories, and escape the Monday-Friday 9 to 5 grind. I don't care who you are in the pits, as I've met nothing but good people- and that's what draws me to the sport.

If you're not back yet...you will be, and if you think about it, this will be why. Do it on your terms and your speed- but have fun doing it!

[Baltobuell]

  Ed, that sounds awfully familiar. I ran dirt track in the 70's and quit when I got married. Went through the raising a kid and the whole responsible thing. A BRAG track day sucked me back in. The whole, hey I'm not really dead yet, awareness hit hard. HD of Baltimore(shameless plug) Offered to help me out, so I gave it an honest effort when I could. It was a great time I'll never forget. My son is a Marine now and this would really be a better time to fool around with racing,(The house is quiet and relaxed, it's kinda neat) but I figure a year or two seeing what else is out there might be in order. Obviously I miss the people, that's why I still check in to see what's happening.  In my original post I thought I was helping a kid not waste his money. Thanks for putting a buffer there.
 Now back to how to set up an XB! I'm outa the loop so keep me up to date.

[Al_Soran]

Hey Balto,

I would agree with trying to help one not waste a lot of money trying to set one of these XB's up and your point is well taken. The biggest drawback of this bike is the lack of relatively inexpensive suspension/driveline parts, so yes, it's expensive. But I gotta tell ya'- it's fun being the only Buell on the grid in a sea of SV's. If I were addressing someone just starting out I'd definately recommend an SV due to the amount of free flowing setup information and tons of tuning and go-fast parts fairly cheap. With that said, your efforts are definately on target!
Take care and hope to see ya' back on the track sometime!

[Rhun]

what is needed to make these bikes competive and how much is the cost
 
Few times over the years Honda Factory has spent $2 million on a bike. Now you know the extreme. If you stay in the superstock class, I expect you can learn how to ride well. Although I haven't raced in 25 years I expect that the adage that the racer is the best part of the bike/racer package. That said, stock XB12 has tons more go than the XB9 and fits in the same stock class. Spend first money on protection for you. If you're broke, bike/racer team is done. Then spend under $400 for Perilli super corsa SC2 green as these seem to be the most recommended by Buell riders and they pay contengency money. You can quit here for now. Next spend Under $1000 for the pro race kit or Hal's muffler, computer, air cleaner. Next a fairing from Racing Motorcyles, again under $1000. I hear good things about Buell's racing springs kit. $80. Since you are running in a stock class, your motor should last well, the more you increase performance; the more you increase expense and decrease reliablility. The Buell is not a 14,000 RPM v4 don't ride it like one, shift it before red lines and limiter cutout. Avoid tire smoking rear tire downshifts.  Learn to be smooth and your motor and trophy case will thank you. Once you are at this level of spending you have the potential to be competive. If you are finishing in second or third consistantly, spring for the chain setup for that edge, otherwise enjoy the benifits your wide torque band. Once you understand the bike and your style you can start working on what other set up and engine mods, within the class rules, will help. If you ride well, someone will notice and provide you with suport so you can move up to more exptreme classes. As it has been for a hundred years, sponsers love people both fast AND nice on equipment! Riding an unteched out bike leaves little doubt in a sponsers mind that it is you and not the bike that is hot.
Hope to see you next year as I reenter the racing game

[PJ]

The Nissin race kit pads are marked #5201.