New Leather Suit Advice

[Faas73]

I low-sided in T1 this past weekend at Summit Point...no reason to go down, I'm pretty sure there was oil on the track since a lot of other riders reported crashing for "no reason at all" like me.

Anyway, I broke my right elbow in what was a pretty tame crash. I'm betting that the hard plastic armor in my suit is what did my elbow in, and not the actual crash. It's a pretty old Dainese two-piece suit. It's held up really well through a couple of crashes, and is just now showing the smallest of tears on the right arm. It's always been a little big for me, which is why I think the hard armor may have moved around and impacted my elbow instead of protecting it. Does this sound legit?

So, since I'm out of commission for a bit, I'm searching around for a new set of leathers. I'd like a suit with protection in the critical areas like the knees and elbows, but I'm thinking I don't want hard plastic armor this time around. Do modern suits even HAVE hard armor any more? And if so, are there suits made with "soft" armor instead of hard?

Looking for any and all advice on my next purchase. So come on, tell me what I should buy and why. I'm not one to skimp on the $$ if it means I'll have the best possible protection, but I'm also always looking for a deal. :-)

Thanks in advance.

-Brad

[secularist]

my $.02...

keep the hard armor, but get a 1pc custom suit...the armor will be in the right place and stay there.

my suit is by Barnacle Bill...he rocks.

sorry that you're out for a while.  heal fast.

[Fat_Nate]

1 pc custom is great -- I wear Vanson, and couldn't be happier.

[Super Dave]

Vanson for me.

I have been racing a whole lot...eighteen years now.  You fall down occasionally.  Some years more than others.  Anyway, I've been lucky to be relatively uninjuried.  It has to be the suit by Vanson.

[spyderchick]

Brad, email me at alexa@spyderleatherworks.com and we can discuss price points and options for the best suit for you.

There are a lot of good leathers out there, but some are better than others.

[Faas73]

1 pc custom is great -- I wear Vanson, and couldn't be happier.

Nate / Super Dave:

Does Vanson do custom orders? I'm thinking that custom measurements is the only way I'm going to get a suit that fits me correctly.

[H-man]

Does Vanson do custom orders?

Why yes, they do.  ;D http://vansonleathers.com/product_pages/suits/racing_suits.htm  

[L8brake731]

RS Taichi has a combination of both energy absorbing material and a shell on the outside.

All pads are easily accessable and the suit is user friendly to aid cleaning.

Holds up really well when pavement meets equipment.

Price is around $1800.00 depending on style.

Well worth the $$, that's my .02

[gma]

For a living - 47 weekends a year, I watch people crash.

For leathers, you only need to know two words ...

Barnacle

Bill



Period

.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

7 crashes and counting on my Vansons. :o

[Super Dave]

Don't make me pull out my counting tools....


 :-X


 ;D

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Don't make me pull out my counting tools....

"It goes to eleven!"

[MJFRacing]

1 pc custom is great -- I wear Vanson, and couldn't be happier.

Vanson is great!

[Faas73]

Thanks, everyone, for their input.

I've got the elbow pinned and wired now, and I can move the arm a bit, so now I don't need a cast and I can go start trying some suits on. Thanks to everyone here, I think I now have the list narrowed down quite a bit.

Just to throw a fly in the Vanson ointment...I had a teammate a couple years ago that wore Vansons. A fairly minor low-side had that suit come apart in all sorts of places where it should not have come apart (brand new suit, first time down, too). To Vanson's credit, they repaired the suit for free and I think they even threw his name on the back for free, but I guess that incident sorta sticks in my mind when I think about Vansons. I will certainly try on some of their suits though.

Thanks again.

[Super Dave]

I crash suits.

I've been knocked down, ran over, high sided, tumbled, smashed walls...

I race, teach, and test.  I put a whole lot more miles on my suits than others in one year than some will do in several.

Sounds like a real unique problem to that suit.  I have had no such problem myself.

In the time that I have been wearing their suits, my injuries have been relatively minor.  A broken finger in 1996 would be the worst, but I can't blame a suit for that.

Good luck!

[Zac]

After reading all this, I have to ask:  Is there something magical about Vansons?  I mean, do they have a herd of cattle out back that feed on only biologically engineered kelvar grass?

It can't be just good design using high quality materials and workmanship, with good customer service to back it up, because there are numerous leathers makers that fit that bill, many metioned here and in other posts.  So what is it about Vansons that make them any better?  Is there a secret to making leathers that only Vanson knows?  And if so, since Vanson could in no way supply leathers to every racer around the world, shouldn't they be ethically drawn to disclose that secret to other quality leathers makers to reduce the number of injuries in the sport as a whole?

I'm just asking because so many people state their praises of Vansons and that they will wear nothing else simply because "they haven't gotten hurt in them", so why the loyalty?

-z.

[roadracer67]

I order a custom suit from Z Leathers in California and am more than pleased with the fit and quality. They were very pleasant to deal with and more than helpful w/ my numerous questions. I have had the suit for several years and it is worth every penny I paid for it.

[Super Dave]

Yeah, Vanson has a rather strong following.

They weigh a ton.  They are constantly making changes.  They work with racers for design changes.  I've tested suits, Eric Wood does a whole lot of work with them...his proximity helps.  

They are suits that are made in Massachusetts by union workers that get paid a whole lot of money...benefits, etc.  It makes it hard for them as most of the market is flooded by thinner leather and off shore wages.  They could sent the stuff to Nicaragua or some place, but they have a loyalty to their employees and to their customers.

Rather than buying a guy like Aaron Yates, Eric Bostrom, or Colin Edwards, Vanson has sought to offer contingency for club racing, support for up and coming AMA racers (how about those Hayden kids...), and there are events that they actually bring a van or two with repair items...leather, a machine, velcro, etc.  

It's kind of like steak.  Usually, it's good, but there is better.

shouldn't they be ethically drawn to disclose that secret to other quality leathers makers to reduce the number of injuries in the sport as a whole?

Wow, so shouldn't you're wages be taken away from you to support the socio-economic woes of people in other countries too?

Maybe Arai should start making Fulmer helmets too...

Part of their secret is double stiching and using heavy leather fabric that they source locally.  Most common manufacturers are looking for volume and focus on price rather than reputation, consistency, and durability.

Maybe the other manufacturers should ethically decide to make better leathers rather than focus on volume and ridiculous profit.

I think the other American leather suit manufacturers do a fine job.  It's a tight market.  And even the West Coast market is way different than the East coast...this is coming from someone that saw that first hand living directly in the middle in Omaha, Nebraska.  I won't go any deeper than that, but there are great differences.

There are people that only remain in this sport actively for a couple to a few years.  Change is inevitable, but some amount of consistency that I have seen has been from the durability of my Vansons...

Did I mention resale?  I sold my first set of Vanson leathers rather used.  They were stained with asphalt and blood from a little get off that I had at an AMA National where I was knocked down and ran over...started at my left kidney (I was on my chest when I got ran over) my back, neck, and head.  My helmet was crushed and broken at the chin bar, I had Dunlop tire tracks on my neck and helmet.  My thorax was a little tweaked from the episode along with a good abrasion and eight stitches on my chin.  

I was transported on a back board, and I walked out of the hospital.

Good luck!

[spyderchick]

After reading all this, I have to ask:  Is there something magical about Vansons?  I mean, do they have a herd of cattle out back that feed on only biologically engineered kelvar grass?

Maybe.LOL ;D As for Vansons quality, they use leather that's considerably heavier than most off the rack brands, they keep the design of the basic suit simple and add graphics over the top of that leather, and they make every effort to get the custom fit correct. Their customer service is good, and they offer trackside support at some events.

The things that are on the other side of the coin:
*The process to get your custom suit can take a really long time, some people need it now.
*They use really heavy leather, and even with as much perf as you can get. this is still too heavy for some riders.  
*I don't like the fact that they use brass zippers (here Barnacle Bill and I disagree), because your sweat and racing chemicals corrode those zips and they fail. Plastic zips fail also, but if they would use a heavier grade plastic zip in the sleeves and calves, I wouldn't see that many Vansons come through here.
*And last, I think their back protector is a joke and I advise all of my customers to purchase an alternative and use that instead.

That's my poop on that. Even so, there are some verywell made off the rack suits available now, so if you don't have the budget or need for a set of iron clad leathers (lasting upwards of 5-7 years), you can reasonably expect 2-5 years from a well made suit from another manufacturer, provided you don't have multi crash weekends. All suits need regular maintenance, which includes cleaning, conditioning, and getting all the minor stuff fixed ASAP.  



  :D

[Super Dave]

Zippers...yeah.  Hard one.  The brass ones are durable in a crash, but that sweat thing.

Vanson back protectors...

You and I have hit on this one before.

Some might think they are a joke, but they DO WORK.  I have worn those back protectors in my suits all the time.  So have the Wood brothers, and father.  And others.  It's simple, it goes inside the suit, and it does actually work.  Sometimes simplicity is really a better mouse trap...

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

From Daytona to Omaha, I've been asphalt surfing in my Vansons. :o
I wear a Vanson suit that is getting older, and has taken 7 falls so far, to the best of my recolection.  Spyder leatherworks has maintained this suit since new.  I will replace the suit with another Vanson suit when that time comes.
I fall, I get up.  I fall again, I get up.  The suit is still good, so I use it some more.  This is how it goes with Vansons.  This is NOT how it went when I wore Technics, HJC, or Joe Rocket.  Keep in mind that I go 250 lbs on a good day, so I dig a deeper divot than most racers....
For my personal preference, I use a different back protector than the one that Vanson supplied with the suit.
Seems like everyone else feels the same way about Vanson that I do.  So Racer980, I think your question has been answered.

[Faas73]

So Racer980, I think your question has been answered.

I believe it has. Between this board and a couple other sources, I'm down to Vanson and RS-Taichi -- one of them will be my next suit.

Doing some reading, it seems that the CE-approved style of armor is what I'm looking for. No hard plastic, just a foam that expands on impact. Downside is that it needs to be replaced after a crash, but frankly that's less annoying and costly than a broken elbow.

Only the very latest model of RS-Taichi suits (NXL070) uses the CE armor; previous models use a combination soft / hard armor. Finding someone in the States that carries this latest model has been (and still is) a challenge.

Vanson seems to offer CE armor as an option, so they're starting to pull out a lead, since I need this suit in the next couple of weeks to make the July 2nd - 3rd Summit date.

So....final question: Who's the good source to buy from for either of these suits?

Thanks again!

[Super Dave]

Vanson Leathers can still be purchased from Vanson Leathers.... ;D

[Faas73]

Vanson Leathers can still be purchased from Vanson Leathers.... ;D

8)

Of course, since I don't know my size, I'll need to visit a place selling the suits to try them on. If there is a reputable shop someone can recommend, I wouldn't mind giving them the business.

Or would just taking a tape measure to myself be good enough?

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Vanson has a measuring guide.  It might be on their website, or they could mail or fax it to you.  Get a tailor to measure you with the guide in hand for best results.

[Super Dave]

Brad, telling us where you live might help too... ;D

[Faas73]

Brad, telling us where you live might help too... ;D

Ooops. I keep forgetting that I'm not famous. ;D

I'm in Odenton, MD...about halfway between Washington DC and Baltimore.