No knee down, now what..

[roadracer162]

Seat time. Perfect practice makes perfect. I have found that being more comfortable on the motorcycle helps greatly. I don't have the fastest bike nor am I the most talented, but it is amazing what can be learned by questions and answers.

I believe each rider on the same exact bike will ride it differently and even with the rider being the same size the rider/bike combo will vary in lap times.

I am terrible at outright lap times, but my race results are more promising. Go figure.

You mentioned you are heavy, 230+ but at what height? A buddy of mine just used my FZR400/600 at 6'+ and 230# and did very well against many of the newer bikes.

But yes you can improve on wehre you are currently. Good luck.

Mark

[Super Dave]

Seat time?

LOL!  Do the same thing over and over and you can become comfortable with things the way they are...  Never necessarily making progress.

Don't want to wait?  There are other opportunities that can be made to happen.  

Generic adivice...well, that seems to proliferate track day riders, and has even corrupted what used to be club racing.  

It isn't always just about the rider.  The bike is relevant.  I was never magically gifted.  Let's talk about my long seat time...but I learned the difference between some of the things I could change with how I did things, how different tires effected that, chassis, springs, where do you end it?  I've worked with people that have never been on the track, riders getting race licenses, I've worked with amateur and expert racers, I've been a consultant at AMA events to Superbike racers.  Anyway, it's a huge dynamic.  

One day doesn't cover everything, but it pays for a foundation of a relationship where, if the rider wishes, we can work on issues and exchange information with immediacy.  Often it's a process.  And often the "schooling" goes on with students long after.

Anyway...

[roadracer162]

Certainly there is more to it than just the rider, and one can argue the point of rider or bike making the difference.

Without seat time all the best philosophies and teachings are anything but wasted time. If you can't put it in motion with your hands then what good is it?

Yes the rider(me) must have knowledge but then comes the wisdom of that knowledge. There are many bench racers that never get on the track. And man they are fast when they talk. Get them on the track and that's a different story.

Each rider has his own theories of going fast. Not everyine does go fast.  There is no perfect way just different.

With all things equal it does come down to the rider.

Mark

[Super Dave]

With all things equal it does come down to the rider.

Then you're already beaten.


And if all things were equal, or something was an equalizer, the results would always be the same, only the margin would be different.

[roadracer162]

Then you're already beaten.


And if all things were equal, or something was an equalizer, the results would always be the same, only the margin would be different.

If that statement about being beaten is true then there is no point going to school.  I believe that anyone can improve even the best.

You say set up. i say yes. But who makes the choice on set up? isn't it based on the riders input and what he likes. When he improves the set up ultimatley improves. I agree with the set up.

Eric Bostrom was quoted two years ago saying that he changed nothing on the bike but yet went faster and ultimatley won that race. I don't recall specifically which race.

I myself have gone faster more from "the rider" learning and improving and not set up.

I agree with all you are saying, but I do feel as though the rider can improve and can make the difference.

Mark

[Super Dave]

I agree with all you are saying, but I do feel as though the rider can improve and can make the difference.

On the other side, give me a bike, and I can make adjustments to make it all but unrideable.  

Where do you fit in?  The rider?  The bike?  Do you know what good handling is?  Do you know what you can change to make it feel different, better or worse?  Reality is often a lot different than what one thinks.  That's what I try to teach riders.

[roadracer162]

Agreed. I have become somewhat cumfortable on a bike that is nowhere close to being perfect and I am learning these things that make it worse and make it better. I have found the more comfortable and confident I feel about me, the bike, the track, the better the results at the end of the race.

Would someone that has the knowledge of setting up my bike be helpful? Absolutely, but I would need to know why it made it better. That is me and the way i learn.

Results have been good thus far this season. I have learned I can learn from anyone. Maybe not always good things but learn none the less.

Thanks again, now I have food for thought.

Mark

[Super Dave]

Absolutely, but I would need to know why it made it better. That is me and the way i learn.

Exactly.  I'm not here to feed anyone fish without teaching them how to fish.  Like I said before, it's kind of a process.  

I see things you don't.  I run off my intuition and the rider's input.  Sometimes it's a foot here, an arm here, but it looks like the bike is doing this...so, we'll change that because of feel and now go ride.  

Better?  Worse?  Next issue.  

No generic answers, right?

[L8brake731]

Going to school is going to help in a lot of different aspects (depending on the school and staff).

Instructors; most anyways, are trained to focus in on common problems riders induce when trying to achieve speed.

If you think you are goig fast then you prbably haven't noticed that there is usually someone out there who IS faster that day than you and is making it look much more effortless.

Most riders tend to create their own problems in which they will start to make "adjustments" to the bike to correct. For instance; how many of you have hit your mark upon entry, dipped in hard, and let go of the bars, hold on only enough to keep the trhottle rolled on? If you haven't then take a close look at how you ("your bike") in pushing or scubbing that front tire. It tells a story. Set-up, probably not, too much bar input mid turn, probably.

Schools are good for those who know they can improve on their riding skills. Go into a school with the "I'm fast attitude" and you have wasted money, tires, and the schools time.

It's a great thing to have someone observe, and give you feed back and instructions on how to correct a problem that might have slowed you down for years. It's also a great thing to be able to decrease your lap times after training.

Sorry for the hi-jack ;)

[roadracer162]

Mr. Fukiage,

That makes a lot of sense and your input has begun to clear up a lot of issues on my riding style. Thanks

Mark

[Super Dave]

Instructors; most anyways, are trained to focus in on common problems riders induce when trying to achieve speed....

Schools are good for those who know they can improve on their riding skills. Go into a school with the "I'm fast attitude" and you have wasted money, tires, and the schools time.

Sorry for the hi-jack ;)

I'll agree that many programs focus on common rider issues or they teach common MSF idealogy that a "fast" racer might never utilize.

I work with riders at my school and with my former students at the race track.  I actually have fast experts coming to my school.

It's one thing for someone to look at you on the race track, but it's certainly another thing to see.  And another thing to listen and hear.



Just as Mike Simone, extrakt0r here on the board.  We haven't even worked together yet, but I could "see" some of his problems before I ever saw his bike.  

[Green_Knight]

I know some of you guys know a thing or 2 about suspension set up but TRUST ME!  Super Dave barrowed my screw driver and a wrench and gave me a brand new bike!  I could have kept running for the next year with the same bad set up and never know it.  I blamed it on myself for making mistakes but a few turns here and there fixed the problems!  Its WELL worth the cash!