I dont know about anyone else but I'm a little ticked about how the over all points leader is determined. From what I see some people are buying there way into the points! Ive never seen a sport where you can purchase a championship. but I guess Im just crazy. It kind of lowers a sports value when you just buy your way through it. It also lowers the value of other riders accomplishments who actually EARN there way up. I dont know maybe its just me? but what do you think???????????? >:(
Ya I here ya...Being the overall points leader in the Expert Division of Midwest and Great Plains, I'm one of the ones that I remember that is attempting it on only one bike. It is easy to buy two bikes enter all the races in middle weight heavy weight and light weight, Do one lap, pull in and wait till the next race! ::)
I'm ranked in the top five in every class I compete in. Meanwhile I raced 90 races and had not one DNF... Knock on wood fast ;) And 70 Top tens (Not that I'm keeping track ;D) 24 of which were top five. Come talk to me after a race and see If I am bustin' my B*lls for it!!!
Stumpy
Should I take this as your resume stumpy?
Not til its done........ ;)
Stumpy
Overall points determines the number plates, so yes you can buy a plate. Can you buy the number 1 plate? Probably not, because there will be someone out there who enters a lot of classes, hits all the rounds, and is pretty fast. There are also people who aren't so fast, but enter a lot of races and try their best, and with that dedication they get a number plate. There's also the guys that run one lap in every race and get a plate, that sucks!
Brings up the question: what should determine number plates? Overall points rewards the people who show dedication and make sacrifices, and pay CCS the most money. Should the plates be given by a single class, Unlimited GP? In this case the fastest, most consistant (in one class) rider gets the number 1. What about the guys with 600s or SVs that aren't as competitive in UL GP?
When Roger Heemsbergen started ASMA he made it so that the premier class awarded the numberplates, because he HATED the overall points / buying plates when he raced CCS back in the mid '90s. It works great, everyone knows the guys with the low numbers are the fastest out there. The current #1 did it with a 600. There are also awards for top overall expert and am, but these are small awards.
Would CCS do it? Doubt it, why would anyone have the incentive to enter a ton of races then. Less entry fees for CCE and smaller grids for us.
-z.
what stumpy and I are talking about is track champions and The #1 nothing else. people who enter a s**t load of races and do 1 lap and pull in just to get points are doing it just for that reason. I dont see how some one pulling that s**t can show up to a race and show there face. if you want a championship Earn it!!! its that simple. if people want this sport to grow, they need to treat it like a SPORT.
I dunno if you just haven't realized it, but this SPORT costs a hell of a lot of money.
some *could* buy a championship/points/#1plate whatever, some cant.
I don't know anyone who would do the whole "have a bike for every class do one lap and pit in". I doubt anybody would have the sack to show their face at a racetrack.
the whole overall points thing also caters to those bikes ytou CAN race in a lot of classes. unlike my TZ 250, which is only legal in but a few...
BTW I'm earning my own championship.
Quotewhat stumpy and I are talking about is track champions and The #1 nothing else. people who enter a s**t load of races and do 1 lap and pull in just to get points are doing it just for that reason. I dont see how some one pulling that s**t can show up to a race and show there face. if you want a championship Earn it!!! its that simple. if people want this sport to grow, they need to treat it like a SPORT.
Chill Ryan....
I understand your frustration. Yes, you can "buy" a championship, but it takes a lot of $$$ and dedication. Money for some is more easily attainable that for others, but if you are going to 'buy' the championship, you still have to show up to all the events and still run the races.
From your post, I'm assuming that you may run the MW series. If you do, walk upto the #1 plate (his name is Doc Stein), and ask him how he feels about purchasing his #1 plate last year. He will be more than happy to tell you about it.
In regards to the track championship, the winner from last year cannot win it the following year. I believe that Stumpy's in line to win that one this year.
Dawn :)
Im in mid-atlantic region. its just that if you enter a ton of races and you dont do well in any of them and you just show up and do a few laps and pull in. How in the world do you deserve a #1 or a track champion. its simple YOU DONT!
QuoteIm in mid-atlantic region. its just that if you enter a ton of races and you dont do well in any of them and you just show up and do a few laps and pull in. How in the world do you deserve a #1 or a track champion. its simple YOU DONT!
Yeah....
There should be some incentive to do well. However, this is the system that we are currently working with and it won't change for this year. If a well thought out plan, one that is easily tracked and accepted by the majority of the licensed racers is developed, this plan can be forwarded to Kevin Elliot for future years.
Changes have been made. There is nothing to say that this can't be one of them.
Dawn ;)
Whether or not a racer is "earning" their points is listed on the OA Points chart too.
It's called Performance Index. ::)
Stumpy,
I know you and race against you. You are my Hero ;D. You do work for and deserve the Championship that I hope you win this season. I do mean that in earnest.
With that said, some of you might know of another organization that does the #1 plate this way, but I do not. I feel that it is a BS way to drain money from riders who seek the Championship. It is a numbers and money game. We have seen it, buy an SV and you can enter nearly every race. Then just do the laps, even in last place, and if the grids are small in many classes you have the most points at the day.
I personally feel that the #1 plate should go the champion of the premier class race (choose that class, unlimited or whatever). I have seen this in other racing organizations (MRA, AMA, yes I know they have a #1 per class) and it is based on performance and you can't simply buy it. Now, I must also say that in this game we play, money is a factor for success (or even being here to begin with), the more cash the more better the bike and lap times regardless of skill level. However, I feel better seeing the #1 plate on a guy who wins the most races, has the skill, and does the best through the year verses the guy who entered the most races and lapped in the mid pack at best for most of the season.
That is my piece.
Bottom line, it is a money making plan for the CCS. They know that there will be guys who try to buy the plate and give them $500+ per weekend even if he does not success. I do not choose to fight for this title, but I could not afford or would not afford to spend over $5,000+ in entries per season.
Again, to the guys truly RACING for the championship, More power to you and good luck. To the guys trying to finish mid to back pack in every race, you can buy a #1 plate but not the respect that should accompany it.
Mike
Buying a championship/plate like that is sad.
CCS should only take the top 5 rider finishes and count that towards the overall.
People pulling in after one lap. Riding every possible class. How hollow is that ..
QuoteIm in mid-atlantic region. its just that if you enter a ton of races and you dont do well in any of them and you just show up and do a few laps and pull in. How in the world do you deserve a #1 or a track champion. its simple YOU DONT!
What's with all the hostility Ryan?
First off.. is someone doing this, b/c I don't see how this is possible to do.
Secondly.. club racing is all about the money.. Yuppers, that's right. Whether it's entering a lot of races, having a couple bikes, paying for setup/tuning or just doing trackdays/schools to get fast.. ANY way you cut it.. you gotta have money to play and those that do are usually the top guys/gals.
If you've got money, you can have bike(s) enter a lot of race and just do OK and be champion, or you can have 1 bike, pay someone for setup and tuning, do a lot of trackdays & schools, practice and really learn to go fast and be #1.
But really... it's all about the Benjamins.
Do you get any special perks for being the #1 champ or track champ? I heard once that all of your races the following season are free...... Is that true?
QuoteDo you get any special perks for being the #1 champ or track champ? I heard once that all of your races the following season are free...... Is that true?
Yes....
The track champion (both amateur and expert) get their race entries free, at that track only, for the next year. This championship cannot be won two years in a row.
Dawn
Close...
10.4 TRACK CHAMPIONSHIP AWARDS - The Amateur and Expert Track Champions will receive free entries in all classes run
by CCS at the track he/she holds the Championship at for the 2004 season.
10.4.1 2003 Track Champions will not be eligible for the 2004 Track Championship and it's award.
Yep....
Exactly what I said, or am I missing something?
Dawn
I didn't see your post when I posted.
Sorry.
CCS rulebook 3.4.7.A(1) (http://www.formulausa.com/forms/rulebook2004.pdf)
I cannot cut and paste from PDF. How do you do that?
Buying CCS #1 plates is old news. Get used to it or race WERA.
QuoteI didn't see your post when I posted.
Sorry.
Oooops! If I looked at the post times, I could have realized it.
Eric,
When viewing the PDF files there should be a Text botton on the tool bar. Hit that and then you should be able to copy and paste.
Dawn :)
Thanks Dawn
3.4.7 Scoring Procedures
A. To be classified on the results, after starting from the race grid or pit road, the rider and machine must complete one
lap and cross the finish line either on the track or on pit road.
(1). Any rider deemed to be abusing this procedure will be penalized or disqualified. This is a judgment call by the
Referee or Race Director and is not protestable.
QuoteYes....
The track champion (both amateur and expert) get their race entries free, at that track only, for the next year. This championship cannot be won two years in a row.
Dawn
So it would be worth the money to buy a championship if you planned on racing a lot next year also...... This year would be a lot, but next year would be cheap (comparatively).
QuoteSo it would be worth the money to buy a championship if you planned on racing a lot next year also...... This year would be a lot, but next year would be cheap (comparatively).
Wow. That sounds really simple. We must be doing something wrong here as it taking a little more effort than laying down the credit card last time I checked. ::)
Bottom line, there are no guarantees.
Heather
Quote(1). Any rider deemed to be abusing this procedure will be penalized or disqualified. This is a judgment call by the
Referee or Race Director and is not protestable.
Okay. So what has been done about the MW person who is abusing this now? I don't think I've heard of any DQ's yet... and I do know Stein commonly runs ONE or TWO laps, and then pulls in and watches the rest of the race from pit wall. I think it's fairly obvious what he's doing, when he enters an SV650 in GTO. At least TRY to be competitive.
QuoteFrom your post, I'm assuming that you may run the MW series. If you do, walk upto the #1 plate (his name is Doc Stein), and ask him how he feels about purchasing his #1 plate last year. He will be more than happy to tell you about it.
Stein definitely did more to earn his #1 plate last year, than he does this year to keep it. IIRC, he actually COMPLETED races last year. May not have finished inside the top-10 for many, but at least he finished them.
This year, I don't see him finishing anything. It's BS if you ask me. I like Stein and all... he's a super nice guy, friendly, helpful. I just don't agree with the way he is going about the championship.
I really think that the overall championship should not be a tally of all of your points across all classes. Maybe make it a tally of your best 2 classes. Everyone is eligible for at least two, right? LW, MW, HW, UL... there are two for everyone. So make the "overall" points be the total points of your BEST two classes.
You would think that taking the top 2 or 3 classes of the weekend would be the solution, but you forgot one thing: The allmighty dollar! The more races that a racer enters, the more money CCS makes. If you are looking to get the number one plate, you either have to be fast or enter every single race. Some years you have to do both, depending on the competition.
CCS makes a lot more money having people enter 6 classes to do well in the overall standings compared to only entering 2 or 3. It's not that I am saying that all that CCS cares about is money, but they are a business after all!
One reason Doc may not be finishing all the races he enters may have to do with his broken collarbone. Every race I have enetered this year that he has been in, he completed the race.
BS or not, it is his money and he can do with it what he likes. Part of being a US citizen (American = not US citizen), of course that also gives you the right to complain about it ;)
CCS records show that the average racer enters 3 classes. I think 3 or 4 classes per rider, picked before the season starts should count towards the number one plate. I wonder what plate number Ed Key would have?
I don't know how Henry in the Fla. region does it but all i know is the #1 plate holder since i've known him is always a very fast rider.I dont know if it's a coincedince or by design,but I do know these guys have definitly earned it.If you don't believe me try beating any of them :o