I noticed that the crash truck was extremely busy at BHF on Sunday from race 1 on. I don't know if it was poor conditions or just over anxious racers.
I was in my 1st race of the weekend on Sunday (race #6) and got taken out by some yahoo that thought he could win the race on the 1st lap while currently running 10th. I don't know what the turn is technically called, but the right hand kink immediately after you go by the traffic cross over point after turn 6 is the turn I am speaking of (6A ?). I had been staying a few inches outside of the new 1 foot wide patch on the inside of that turn for all the laps I did at BHF this event. Who ever this was decided that the best passing opportunity was apparently at the apex of that turn on the inside (on the 1 foot wide patch)! They managed to come into the side of me and push me off the track where I rode off into the grass and hit an asteroid crater and got launched off the bike and watched the bike go cartwheeling over me as I tumbled.
Now I realize that things happen in racing, but that was one of the stupidist moves I have ever had done to me in the last 8 years! >:( I have always considered the apex of that turn a non-passing zone, which I think most people would agree with. The last time I crashed was 6 years ago, and for an expert to have done this to me just pisses me off. Now I have a messed up bike and my wrist is all screwed up too. At least the guy could have come and found me after the race to see if I was alright, but apparently that person is beyond that. >:( >:( >:(
HWSS am (race#12) was no picnic either. Big pileup in 3 on lap 1. 3-5 bikes involved.
Passed Kimmie on teh start and held her off for a few laps. She finally passed me in 1. Followed her around loooking for a good place to pass.
Going into 4 around lap 6, got tagged in the swingarm by another rider. Ended up hitting the curbing and launching the bike. Landed and dropped it. Simple racing accident. Side started hurting after the adreneline wore off. Well so far theres no apparet fractured ribs, but the doc says they could be very small.
As for the bike, well when I fired it up at the trailer before loading it, it started making very loud marbles in a bucket noises. Guess the motor might be done.
BTW thanks Mark for pushing my bike from turn 5 to my pit. ;D ;D
I saw you over there in the weeds Mike, glad your OK.
Didn't you guys learn that racing is dangerous yet ???:P
Glad your all right ;D
and, this could've happened, so you guys are lucky !
(I know this guy. I've done tons of track days with him, and he borrowed my trailer to go pick up this R6 when he bought it)
Check this out
:o
http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=20ccd7c3515173965ba4d441ac9d1207&threadid=50750
I would've been racing that race with them if I wasn't sceeeered of my old lady. God I'm a chicken. She "felt" I was gonna race, and called to remind me about our deal, so I backed out at the last minute
:'( Waiting for her to get back from PA so I can get my nuts out of her purse :-[
Sorry to hear about that Mike, and Rob too. We ended up with food poisoning from the wedding reception in La Crosse. Between the food poisoning and having had the craap kicked outta me in the GTO, I backed out of Sunday's races-too sore and too sick. Have a good week.
Yes... I too noticed there were people definitely "out for blood". "win at all costs". Now, I enjoy racing, and I do try to win. I will pass people, but stuffing people and passing unsafely is not really what this should be about.
There were many instances which I witnessed some REALLY risky passing manuevers. Some went off okay, most caused 2 bikes to either go off or come to a dead stop, and some ended up in one or more going down...
With all that said, the one thing I will pass onto everyone is that if someone sticks a wheel under you or goes around on the outside, DON'T FREAK OUT! Hold your line and get through the corner...
Mike, sorry to hear that. That sounds exactly like what happened to me at summit point last weekend. Except I was in the 2nd lap of the second morning practice. And I got ran off the track by one of the oldest, fastest guy there that day. A bone head move by a veteran expert trying to win a practice session? Or a veteran misjudge my line/speed and made a mistake?
hope you feel better. My bike is back together and I am healing too, but I still have no confidence in my fellow racers. A guy who has raced 10+ years making a move like that, and then telling me it wasn't him afterwards?
Bummer Mike. That turn is called 6 gate, 6A is the little kink just before 7. It seems that this being early in the season, being warm, people were doing some crazy stuff. One would hope that by the time a racer gets a white plate that they would figure out that endangering another racer is not worth it. I tend to err on the side of being too safe. It cost me, Tom Short got by (he may have anyways) after I was held up by some lappers (no big deal, it is part of club racing), I might have been able to go up the inside in 6A, but that can be a tough place to pass, so I backed off. It sin't the first time I have been passed from being too safe, but I would feel worse if I caused someone to crash. Everyone (well most of us at least) has to go to work on Monday.
Yeah, lotsa carnage on Sunday for sure. "Spring Fever" seemed to be epidemic. Does anybody know how the guy on the yellow bike who was transported out of turn 5 faired?
QuoteYeah, lotsa carnage on Sunday for sure. "Spring Fever" seemed to be epidemic. Does anybody know how the guy on the yellow bike who was transported out of turn 5 faired?
Nick Pal... Broken shoulder. Wife was on her way up to collect him last night. His stuff is loaded, but I'm sure it's still sitting at the track.
Don't race alone :-/
some of us have no chioce but to race alone.
Right on Jeff, Brian and r6_phily. Too many racers forget this IS CLUB RACING. In group 5 practice I was following Mark around the track and seen ALOT of bone head passes in practice. The guy that I got tangled with said this is his first full weekend. Rookie mistake? Yep and he even said that he should had waited until turn 5 to pass. As I told him, it was a typical racing accident. No big deal since its part of the game. But over the last 2-3 yrs I've been witnessing some guys getting all bent out of shape because they got "taken out" by a normal racing incident. Relax, have fun. THis is our hobby. As Brian said, Most of us work monday morning.
Quotesome of us have no chioce but to race alone.
Exactly. BUt I'm about 15 min from home at teh track. Everytime I tried to get a friend to come down with me to be a pit crew, he made some excuse not to.
I agree with Jeff, it is not a good idea to come to the track alone. My wife won't let me. Either she goes, or I have to go with someone else. That is one reason why I got a larger trailer. I can put another rider's bike and gear in my trailer.
That being said, other races will always be around to help out.
QuoteI agree with Jeff, it is not a good idea to come to the track alone. My wife won't let me. Either she goes, or I have to go with someone else. That is one reason why I got a larger trailer. I can put another rider's bike and gear in my trailer.
That being said, other races will always be around to help out.
It sounds like your wife and I have a lot in common. Paul is not allowed at the track alone.
Dawn ;)
AAAAHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh
One track mom is enough ;D
Quotesome of us have no chioce but to race alone.
You're never alone at BHF, Steve... I wasn't even there, but I would have driven down to get you if need be.
I literally can't race without my wife. Mentally I'm not there. I always have to know there's someone to pick up the pieces, and she's it...
2 years ago I raced with a buddy at R.A. without my wife. He went down in a starting line crash and was taken to the hospital. That was the slowest race of my life. I just didn't want to be out there. It wasn't fun.
Quote I have always considered the apex of that turn a non-passing zone, which I think most people would agree with. The last time I crashed was 6 years ago, and for an expert to have done this to me just pisses me off. Now I have a messed up bike and my wrist is all screwed up too. At least the guy could have come and found me after the race to see if I was alright, but apparently that person is beyond that. >:( >:( >:(
Sorry to hear about your crash. Gordon did the same thing to me in T2 last sept. My shoulder and wallet are still recovering. The only good side of the story is Rosno tells a great rendition of the crash as he was right behind it. Gordon was very apologetic and realised he srcewed up right away. I told him if I had seen a wheel in three I would have let him through. I needed a tow from his crazyself up to the 3 guys in front. That guy that hit you is a wussy and can't own up to it. Find out who it is and have a talk with him......check out his side. Hope that wrist gets better soon. Injuries suck.
went down coming out of three myself.
i highsided infront of stumpy.
by the way, thanks stumpy for not hitting me.
no broken bones,( so the doctor says) , just ligament and tendon damage to my left foot and right hand.
i'll be back for the next blackhawk ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
QuoteNow I have a messed up bike and my wrist is all screwed up too.
Mike,
Sorry to hear about your crash. That sucks. I hope you're able to get your bike back together and feel strong enough to race at BHF Memorial Weekend...
Thanks to all for the kind words, I appreciate it. :)
My injuries are very minor compared to others who broke bones or tore muscles. My wrist has started turning all kinds of neat colors and is swollen on the underside, but I don't think it's broken cause I can move it in all directions, though restricted, but it hurts like mad when I do it. It seems like I can't push hardly at all (as if I had my hand flat against a door), and when I was trying to run a CNC Mill today at work I had trouble even trying to press the button to release the cutter. I don't want to have it checked unless absolutely neccesary (no need to give insurance companies more ammo). I am thankful that the bike didn't land on top of me as I was tumbling and the bike was flipping thru the air, luckily it flew over me and hit a few feet away from me before launching into orbit again. (It was all happening like it was in slow motion, I remember repeating to myself "don't hit me, don't hit me, don't hit me" as the bike was in the air over me)
Just to make it clear, I wasn't mad that I crashed (though not happy), I was just very dissapointed in the experienced racer that made that very risky manuever. Accidents happen and they are to be expected, but this was just a very bad decision by someone who should have had the experience to know better. I remember back in '95 when I took the Learning Curves licensing class and we did a track walk 1st thing in the morning. At that turn Dave Doe was saying how that area was not a passing area (at the apex) and was really a 1 bike line at that point, I have lived by that general rule since then after seeing for myself that it was very true. He said that there were only a couple people he knew of that could make a pass on another fast rider at that point successfully, but most people couldn't. Hopefully this person will be more cautious in the future and wait 2 more seconds to make a pass in that area. :-/
Glad everyone is alright for the most part. That was pretty nasty Anthony! Good thing that Guiness gives you thick skin. Oh and you owe me a pair of undies! ;D
Stumpy
Mike-
Please get your wrist checked ASAP. I had what appeared to be a fairly mild wrist injury 2 years ago. It ended up being pretty major. I was initially misdiagnosed and then poorly treated. I have since had 4 surgeries and now have only about 15 degrees flexion/extention, where almost 180 degrees is normal.
I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but your wrist is an amazing joint that can be fragile and really impact your life if it is damaged and not properly treated.
QuoteMike-
Please get your wrist checked ASAP. ÊI had what appeared to be a fairly mild wrist injury 2 years ago. ÊIt ended up being pretty major. ÊI was initially misdiagnosed and then poorly treated. ÊI have since had 4 surgeries and now have only about 15 degrees flexion/extention, where almost 180 degrees is normal.
I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but your wrist is an amazing joint that can be fragile and really impact your life if it is damaged and not properly treated.
Yeah, and you won't be able to "pleasure" yourself that much too if your wrist is screwed up :P
Sorry, had to throw that in :-X
Mike: What do you do for a living?
Sorry to hear about your crash. :-/
Well, this is club racing.
Yeah, but it's actually a "Pro/AM" event too. There was $6k up for grabs in four expert races. Didn't see any problems in those races I was in, but that may have been the company that I was racing with.
Yeah, Mike, might not be bad to go to the doctor and show them what happened when you fell down the stairs...those stairs...dangerous...
8)
If it is busted, I've got the hook up on the bone stuff for mending that. I've broken my hand, finger, and foot before...not all racing...really...and they still moved. Some hurt and some didn't. But that wrist thing...
My hand was broken in 1988 at Grattan. Doctor in Michigan thought it should be pinned. Was set by my doctor at home. Had problems with it, and I had to have it rebroken and pinned together in 1992. Now that was painful.
QuoteMy hand was broken in 1988 at Grattan. Doctor in Michigan thought it should be pinned. Was set by my doctor at home. Had problems with it, and I had to have it rebroken and pinned together in 1992. Now that was painful.
Did they make you crash again? ;D
LOL...I wish.
The break at Grattan wasn't too painful. I guess I have a high tolerence for pain, so I'm told. I usually just don't notice.
I assume that it's just chisels and hammers for surgery. I wanted to be awake for it all, but I guess the process is a bit long (hour and a half?) and, as the doctor said, "...it might be a bit...uncomfortable." It was. The pins were supposed to work right through my skin, eventually, but they never did. I guess that was part of the discomfort...the constant movement of the pins against the tissues.
QuoteMike: What do you do for a living?
Sorry to hear about your crash. :-/
I am technically a Tool & Die Maker, but I do a wide variety of things at work, currently it's mostly been on a CNC mill, conventional EDM, industrial Laser, and some Tig welding. I realize that wrist mobility is very important for me so I really should get it looked at. I think that a tree root that was sticking out of the ground while I was walking across my yard Sunday night tripped me and I fell on my wrist pretty hard. Those darn strairs have already taken me out in the past ( ;) ) so I probably won't go there. I have broken 9 bones in the past including 3 in my foot, my ankle, 4 ribs, and a finger (all on my left side, and this is my left wrist!)
Stupid Question
If someone trys to stuff you into a corner like that can you use self defense and try to kick them out of the way. I know that sounds really risky, but if that person is that close to you, there may be no other choice but that or to crash.
Hey mike, glad you're alright man. My wrist is still messed up from crashing out of turn 5 at Gratton Last year. I alway jam it or hurt it again to when I'm riding off road or doing other things.
I guess it's all in the game, if you're going to play, you'll eventually Pay in one way or another.
Kicking the other bike is really no different than the 2 bikes colliding. Newton said that for every force there is an equal and opposite force. If you kick the other bike, the force applied to you and your bike will be the same force as you apply with your foot on the other bike (same size force, opposite direction). It is impossible to hit something harder than it hits back.
QuoteStupid Question
If someone trys to stuff you into a corner like that can you use self defense and try to kick them out of the way. I know that sounds really risky, but if that person is that close to you, there may be no other choice but that or to crash.
I guess it's all in the game, if you're going to play, you'll eventually Pay in one way or another.
Kick someone? Yeah, it's completely ridiculous to think that. Riders will make mistakes. Even the person riding your bike will make mistakes.
More often than not, we save it. And even when we don't, riders are generally getting up.
But riders do continue to buy blow out leathers. What someone can build and sell for less...hey, there is a cost for it. There are several reasons why I've been with the same leather manufacturer for so long.
I'm going to infer upon my experiences about all of this.
I've been racing since 1987. There were no track days then. Maybe there was California Superbike School, but I never went. I raced.
At that time, as racers, we were always trying to achieve something more. I wanted support, a ride, etc. So, I started AMA racing in 1989. Never complained about riders "going too fast" during practice. I always figured that the only way that I could figure out what the bike was going to do at speed was to try to get up to speed.
Rather than just "wanting" to enter an AMA event to "guage myself", I wanted to beat everyone. I've been on the track with Kipp, DuHammel, Russel, Lawson, James, Chandler,etc...
But beyond that, I've been on the second row of an AMA national behind those guys too.
With all the track day stuff going on, it seems like the track day mentality is weeping into actual road race competition at the "club" level. It isn't a track day. When I go to an AMA event, I understand that contact will potentially occur between myself and other competitors.
At Blackhawk this weekend, with there being Yamaha money, I had reasonable expectations of that also. Jensen is a seasoned AMA veteran and made $120k last year in Yamaha money before expenses. Tez is a good rider and is becoming more seasoned after all the AMA rounds. Shawn Conrad is an AMA National Road Racing Champion. Purk? Lots of local championships and lots of experience. Yet, we all seemed to get around ok without contact this weekend.
Stupid moves...Morgan Broadhead, the director of On-Road Competition for American Suzuki Motor Corportation took me out when he out broke himself and bowled me over at RA turn five (Morgan is a good sized guy). I'm unhappy with him, but it happens. I don't have the budget to have those kind of things to happen to me, but they will happen.
Stupid moves on one side can be opportunities when looked at from the other. I don't think it makes anything right or wrong. I can feel your pain, Mike.
I think it was Sean Wyatt that fell down with you, if I'm not correct, #29? Is his name here
swyatt? He's an engineer with Ford. Might have been a mistake...I don't have a reply from him, so I don't know his condition myself.
Great post, Dave.
Thank you CCS for breaking up AM & EX for the most part, too. I think that made a difference for the better--less of a mess. Delays seemed to be minimal with the exception of a way early third calls. But that's easy to live with.
I'm no racer but I don't think there's a need for kicking in road racing. Nudging, leaning and bumping will happen, but intentional kicking can stay out.
Stumpy's fortunate enough to run with a group of guys that he trusts out there and he appreciates that--so do I.
Heather
No kicking :o Quick, someone call Yates and let him know ;D
QuoteI think it was Sean Wyatt that fell down with you, if I'm not correct, #29? Is his name here swyatt? He's an engineer with Ford. Might have been a mistake...I don't have a reply from him, so I don't know his condition myself.
The person that pushed me off the track didn't go down himself, he used me as a berm to stay on the track, I personally feel that he couldn't have made the turn in the 1st place based on the line he took into the side of me. The # 29 bike crashed in turn 7 on the last lap, we just picked up his bike on the way in, that's why that bike was on the trailer with me.
Sean Wyatt is a clean racer and a straight-up guy. If he was in a multi bike wreck, he would most likely run straight to the other rider to see if he was OK, and be apologizing his butt off if he felt it was his fault.
(I know you said it wasn't him, but I'm just covering a buddy's butt.)
I brought Sean's GF over to him. He was awake and cracking jokes, but took a HUGE knock to the noggin. His Arai is flat on the back side. Definitely saved his life.
The med squad watched him for a while and then sent him off for a scan. Haven't heard anything other than that.....
If anyone hears anything on Sean "monsta" Wyatt
please post it.
He is motomaddness on the board
It was definately not Monsta.
Sean, I hope you are ok...I saw your lady walking with your gear past my pit..after your crash.
Mike, FYI the patches are fine...no grip change there.
NOT like RA. The big one in turn one and the other that you refered to in your early post are only visual
distractions.
I was repremanded this weekend for being " Out-of-control" Hmmn... Bill Fuhrman and Phil came to my pits to say that a rider/s had complained about me.....I owned up to a race error while trying to take Simon on the brakes in T6 and had a polite pit discussion with another rider who got into my rear wheel as I passed him in T7. Gave him enough room
he said he didn't expect the pass and he stood up ever so slightly... no harm no foul...I entered the grass as I pushed wide and waited to re-enter the track. I could have waited to pass down the straightaway, but I would have lost so much drive...
oh well....another lesson learned. But back to the complaint. Not at any time was I "Out-of-control"
this weekend. This in "Expert" racing?
Guys...I can't speak for everyone, but the faster you
go, the more trust you have for your competitors.
I made the same pass on Stevie B in T1...he and I
pimped thru no prob. Start expecting closer racing.
You will be bumped, swiped, elbowed, ass smacked,
waved at, flipped the bird at, and maybe even punted off the track by Aaron Yates. That doesn't
mean that the racing is out of control, it could just mean that you need to go a little faster. Tez made a great pass on me going into T6 and I elbowed his
air Jordans on the way in... Was he out of control?
nope...just trying to catch Rosno like the rest of us.
So to whoever made the "complaint", take your skirt off and talk to me in the pits if I offend you on the track.
30.
QuoteYou will be bumped, swiped, elbowed, ass smacked,
waved at, flipped the bird at, and maybe even punted off the track by Aaron Yates.
This reminds me...Stumpy says on the way home, "Someone slapped me on the ass so hard on pit road after a race, it hurt! Did you see who it was?" Whoever it is.........keep it up! ;)
If out of control is flipping off my husband in the carousel, then that's you, Benji. Hee hee. Wow....
Heather
QuoteThis reminds me...Stumpy says on the way home, "Someone slapped me on the ass so hard on pit road after a race, it hurt! Did you see who it was?" Whoever it is.........keep it up! ;)
If out of control is flipping off my husband in the carousel, then that's you, Benji. Hee hee. Wow....
Heather
I thought for sure that camera would be on...it's a Thornton thing. You missed the on track pelvis
thrusting by your husband. I gave him the "na na na na boo boo" with my butt in the air and he passed
me back going into the buss stop...and proceeded to thrust his hips in a procreational style. BTW, I did get out with Robbie on Monday...the lap times would be considered quite offensive to the mortal riders.
I was hanging tough with the guy for 6 laps or so while he waved me to catch and pass him...he was doing high 11's and waving at me... I was 5-6 bikes behind......
not on the suzuki as you know ;)
I come back to the pits and Samantha and PJ come over to me and say " I can't believe you were hanging with Robbie for so long...we thought that you would crash trying to catch him" I told them that
even though I was going better than ever, he was freaking waving at me and egging me on. it was well
worth the learning experience. The R6... all I can say is "WOW"
I am riding a turd.
Benj.
Sorry about your mishap Mike. I'm just glad your allright. And you too Rob. It was absolutly no problem to take your bike back for you. Pushing your own bike back to your pits alone after a crash is is a long lonley tiring walk. Glad I could help. The Kegel boys are always here to help whenever we can. I would like to say to Rick Brewer and Dean Hagaman "thank you" for the invaluable input and ideas yestery at the advanced school. What an eye opener!! And to Billy Casper and Motovid.com.... that video was AWSOME!! Video taping my second school session was the best money I have ever spent! What an incredable learning tool this is especially in conjunction with the Learning Curves advanced school. I just cant say enough about this new venture. And as far as me going to the track and racing alone.... Well, as those of you that know me, Becky is always there making sure I am safe and have my head screwed on right! Thanks Beck!! All in all for the first weekend back at it, It was a blast! Great seeing everyone again!
Mark B.
Benji, you seemed to get tangled up in a lot of messes this weekend. Either that, or I was just fortunate enough to have entered the only races where you did :)
I ended up going around you 3x while you and another rider swapped spit through turns. Then you'd come back within a lap or two and make it around me.
You didn't stuff me or get too close for my comfort, but following you into a turn while coming up on another rider got to be quite interesting 8)
There were a lot of people who were ALL over the track. But it's early in the season I guess.... With any luck we'll all live through it
Just to put some legitimacy to my complaint, I have only really complained about 1 other rider in my 8 years of racing, and that was a street rider that made a very sudden move during the Team Suzuki Endurance School back in '96 (which caused me to crash while avoiding him).
I have been run off the track before, swapped paint many times, crashed before, and I have passed and been passed many times before. I know about not freaking out and going off the track, this guy forced me off the track, I had no real choice in the matter. My sole complaint was the location of that pass since my '99 GSXR 600 with my 230 lb. self on it can easily be out accelerated by almost every bike in the classes I race.
QuoteStupid Question
If someone trys to stuff you into a corner like that can you use self defense and try to kick them out of the way.
And if a cornerworker sees that, you can rest assured you will be having a chat with the race director and might end up packing your stuff up. ;D
QuoteBenji, you seemed to get tangled up in a lot of messes this weekend. Either that, or I was just fortunate enough to have entered the only races where you did :)
I ended up going around you 3x while you and another rider swapped spit through turns. Then you'd come back within a lap or two and make it around me.
You didn't stuff me or get too close for my comfort, but following you into a turn while coming up on another rider got to be quite interesting 8)
There were a lot of people who were ALL over the track. But it's early in the season I guess.... With any luck we'll all live through it
Those messes are from about 6th place and farther back.... I remember you passing me one time when I over shot 6 while passing Simon...
I don't want to sound like a rooster ;), but I'm not going to settle in behind someone slower just because the pass looks too scary. :'( There is a reason why there are guys who are fast and those that aren't. The faster guys get it done. Jeff, I was battling Tez, Purky, and Rosno, not the guy 2 riders in front of you.
It was my fault for having bad starts and making an
error or two. You think that following me was interesting...you should have been behind me and Jeff as we went thru traffic as 1. That was not interesting but dang fun....ask Stumpy how he felt when Purk and I sandwiched him in T7...did he complain? nope..he smiled at me and said wow! I wish I had a horn ;D
doing 13's is one thing, but to do it around traffic....
welcome aboard the expert train.
Benj.
If anyone has any updates on Sean.. please post it.
QuoteIt was definately not Monsta.
Sean, I hope you are ok...I saw your lady walking with your gear past my pit..after your crash.
Mike, FYI the patches are fine...no grip change there.
NOT like RA. The big one in turn one and the other that you refered to in your early post are only visual
distractions.
I was repremanded this weekend for being " Out-of-control" Hmmn... Bill Fuhrman and Phil came to my pits to say that a rider/s had complained about me.....I owned up to a race error while trying to take Simon on the brakes in T6 and had a polite pit discussion with another rider who got into my rear wheel as I passed him in T7. Gave him enough room
he said he didn't expect the pass and he stood up ever so slightly... no harm no foul...I entered the grass as I pushed wide and waited to re-enter the track. I could have waited to pass down the straightaway, but I would have lost so much drive...
oh well....another lesson learned. But back to the complaint. Not at any time was I "Out-of-control"
this weekend. This in "Expert" racing?
Guys...I can't speak for everyone, but the faster you
go, the more trust you have for your competitors.
I made the same pass on Stevie B in T1...he and I
pimped thru no prob. Start expecting closer racing.
You will be bumped, swiped, elbowed, ass smacked,
waved at, flipped the bird at, and maybe even punted off the track by Aaron Yates. That doesn't
mean that the racing is out of control, it could just mean that you need to go a little faster. Tez made a great pass on me going into T6 and I elbowed his
air Jordans on the way in... Was he out of control?
nope...just trying to catch Rosno like the rest of us.
So to whoever made the "complaint", take your skirt off and talk to me in the pits if I offend you on the track.
30.
ya bumped, kicked, elbowed, pushed or given the finger is ok with me. But riding on one wheel on the gas at the braking point with someone turning in in front of you is not. Thats the kind of stuff you do the first time you get on the track.
And telling me face to face afterwards "I passed you long before you got punted and I was nowhere near you, no its not me" is DEFINTELY not ok. not that I am a difficult person, but that I had a HUGE probably with.
call me wearing a skirt if you must, but I want to point out, I don't and will not ever have a problem with close racing, or even contact racing, IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE IT THROUGH THAT CORNER ONLINE" if you are going to bonzai off the track, please do not take me with you.
QuoteThose messes are from about 6th place and farther back.... I remember you passing me one time when I over shot 6 while passing Simon...
I don't want to sound like a rooster ;), but I'm not going to settle in behind someone slower just because the pass looks too scary. :'( There is a reason why there are guys who are fast and those that aren't. The faster guys get it done. Jeff, I was battling Tez, Purky, and Rosno, not the guy 2 riders in front of you.
It was my fault for having bad starts and making an
error or two. You think that following me was interesting...you should have been behind me and Jeff as we went thru traffic as 1. That was not interesting but dang fun....ask Stumpy how he felt when Purk and I sandwiched him in T7...did he complain? nope..he smiled at me and said wow! I wish I had a horn ;D
doing 13's is one thing, but to do it around traffic....
welcome aboard the expert train.
Benj.
there is a difference between scary pass and dangerous pass. If you are not going to get through the turn and hold your line, do not pass.
I don't care who, if anyone does that to me again and I figure out who it was while I am at the track. I am going to kick your ass nonetheless. ;D
by the way, the guy who punted me end up having his bike destroyed (totaled) because he got punted later in the day.
Carma
Generally if I am going at a pace slower than the other guys I try and leave extra room both inside and outside for faster guys to pass if so desired. Last year I was riding very conservative and would get lapped by Kevin Gordin at almost every race on the last lap, sometimes 1 or 2 riders might be with him but not always. He can pass pretty close so I generally left extra room to get around me on either side once it got down to the last 2 laps, I don't believe that we ever had a problem with each other.
Even though I was still on my '99 GSXR 600, I wanted to start riding like I use to and pick-up the pace at this event and get back into the top 10 consistently again and go from there. But since I didn't even get 1 lap in during the race I have no idea what pace I was running, I was running about 10th place when I crashed. I really wish I would have been able to run all 4 of my races to see what kind of times I could have turned. Oh well, that's racin'!
Went and got X-rays tonight and the bones look ok, so mainly tissue damage according to the doctor. I got a brace for the wrist so I might try and do St. Louis this weekend on my 750. I think I will borrow my brothers street bike and see if I have any strength in that wrist at the end of the week. :)
Sean called me.
He's good. Was heading back and all.
I'm in error. Yeah, Mike, it was another guy. Glad too 'cause I hate seeing two of my guys in the crash truck.
Seemed like he said something about that it might have been the same guy.
So, who is the special character? Got a racing number?
Sup!
I am at home now, after being in the hospital for 2 full days. I suffered a chest contusion, a hairline fracture of my #10 rib on the left side and a concussion - hooray for HJC helmets, it may not be the best, but it saved my life.
What happened:
All I can say is this weekend was both the best and worst time I have ever had racing. I took over 5 seconds off my best times at BHF and felt like nothing was going to slow me down. Everytime I went out on the track I took an average of 2 seconds off my time - Thanks Super Dave and Ben Carlson's Crew Chief for letting bounce thoughts off of them. This was my four race of the weekend, during the race I saw #58 get punted off in turn 6, definitely wasn't a clean pass, it was like he just got pushed too wide, then there was no more track left. It was around this point when I focused ahead of me and tried putting something together that Super Dave and I had talked about. I was now comfortably down into the 17's - a first for me - feeling like I could go faster and possibly put a couple of more people behind me. Entering the last lap (I think), there was one rider about 4-5 bike length ahead of me, I knew I could catch, but it wasn't going to come before T6, so I stayed on him, almost cathing him at T6. By the time we reached the kink before T7 I had so much closing speed that I could stay to the inside of him, and had to try and pass him on the outside. This was a bad move. I think I got close to him, our bike collided and I went flying. The next thing I remember was the EMT's putting the neck brace on me.
As I told Super Dave, it might have been the same guy that took out #58, but I am not sure. I think my accident was my fault, not the other rider's. I got greedy and now I am paying for it. I keep telling myself that would have been a 1:16 lap or better. I was definitely feeling 1:15 by the end of the weekend. The setup of my bike as awesome. It's amazing how easy a well setup bike is to ride fast.
Mike, #58, if it was the same guy, my accident may have stuck with him a little more, since I probably went head over heals right in front of him and I was unconcious for several minutes. I don't mean to belittle your pain, but sometimes it the last thing that happens to you that you remember most. How you feel better soon, and I hope the guy that I hit is feeling okay as well.
In closing, I'd like to thank my spnosors for helping me and teammates out this season:
- Michelin Tires - MRT and Mid-Illini Motorsports
- Elka Suspension
- Ferodo Braketech
- GP Tech
- SilkoleneStore.com/Sliderwoman.com/ Motoliberty
- Motion Pro
- WoodCraft
- VP Racing Fuel
- Motonation - Sidi Boots
- Sprocket Specialist
- Rosenau Powersports/Thumb Motorsports/Detroit Eurocycles
- USA Collison and Repair
and especially
- Visionsports Riding Schools
Glad you're doing better Sean!
Thanks Jack. I saw some of my latest photos almost show a little elbow dragging. ;D
good to hear your reasonably OK monsta. By the way you did look faster this weekend 16ns nicely done. Good luck with the recovery can't wait to see you out there again.
Glad your alright Sean! Did you hear I did a replay of your Gingerman start in 02? ;D
Good to hear from you, Sean.
Take care!
Heather
Quote Glad your alright Sean! Did you hear I did a replay of your Gingerman start in 02? ;D
hehehe you pulled a Sean Wyatt. Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk ;D
I don't care who, if anyone does that to me again and I figure out who it was while I am at the track. I am going to kick your ass nonetheless.
Holy crap Dafan..you sound angry... what happened?
who took you out?
Benj.
ARRRRRRGH Sean!!! :o
I'm so glad you're okay!
I'm doing okay. I would be better if the world would just stop spinning.
MJ, so you did an "S-Dub" start. That was definitely an embarrasing moment, but we all at least had a good laugh. Are you okay? I got mine captured on video for all of prosperity.
QuoteI'm doing okay. I would be better if the world would just stop spinning.
MJ, so you did an "S-Dub" start. That was definitely an embarrasing moment, but we all at least had a good laugh. Are you okay? I got mine captured on video for all of prosperity.
Yea, I still laugh when I think about it! I just brusied the knee a bit. Luckily I was gridded last so nobody was behind me. I remember watching yours at the track and you saying that you were tired of not getting good starts....
again, hope you feel better soon man!
yep this was a brutal weekend! lol
glad to hear everyone is okay for the most part.
btw, typing with one hand sucks...lol :P
QuoteI don't care who, if anyone does that to me again and I figure out who it was while I am at the track. I am going to kick your ass nonetheless.
Holy crap Dafan..you sound angry... what happened?
who took you out?
Benj.
you dang right I am angry. I am usually a very easy going guy, but when it comes to certain times...
I got ran off the track by Joe Ribiero. Who happen to be a very very fast 40+ year old guy. I pitted next to him at VIR and Summit. I was told by someone in that corner that he rode a wheelie out of turn 3, then missed me narrowly at the turn in of turn 4 (which is a 5th gear kink like daytona) . since he over shot the corner at that point (I started turning and he didn't) he had to scrub off speed just to make it through himself. So I had to stand my bike up, and start braking to not hit him. so we both slow down, until the edge of the track (at which time we are looking at a concrete wall lined with tires about 50 feet away, and I hit that twice last year). When he got to the edge of the track, he turned and stayed on the track, I turned when he turned, and I was in the dirt. I rode along the wall from turn 4 all the way to 5, and seeing I was still going way too fast to re-enter the track at 5 (there is curbing and a step-like to the racing surface from the dirt) I tried my best to slow down, and end up crashing in the dirt (there are large rocks and divits in the dirt). I thought I was going about 40 when I crashed, and it turned out more like 80. So I did a face plant in the dirt, flipped a few times and end up in the middle of the track while my bike cartwheeled to the other side of the track. I got up tried to run off the track so not to get hit by bikes, and I fell down because I was dizzy (mild concussion perhaps, I have headaches).
I passed the offender in the dirt because I could not slowed down enough, and me and my bike must have flipped themselves over right in front of him. There were 5 guys out on track at the time and we were all bunched together. I remembered 1 digit from his plate. "8"
so after the session, I talked to him to see if he knew what happened. He said he was no where near me and he didn't see anything.
I went and looked at the practice session's times. There are only 2 persons with "8" in there plate. me 818 and him 88. but I wasn't sure so I didn't say nothing.
after I came home I was told by someone at trackside that it was 100% absolutely him.
and I knew the offender saw what happened. Again there were 5 guys in the practice session and this was the 2nd lap.
I am very angry.
I do not have a problem really with the incident, because like Dave said, it is racing, not trackdays.
but I do have problem. If I put anyone in danger because of my riding, I will admit my wrong, even if nothing else.
My first weekend at summit point I took out 8 guys on the start because I was a good starter, and everyone braked too much ;D I got the worst one, got my ligament popped and everyone walked away. I was really sorry and talked to as many as who would talk to me and apologized.
I would like to see that from my fellow racers. We all make mistakes. but it would be nice to say "I am sorry", it goes a long way.
Quotebtw, typing with one hand sucks...lol :P
I figured you'd be well practiced at that by now DanO :P
QuoteI do not have a problem really with the incident, because like Dave said, it is racing, not trackdays.
If I put anyone in danger because of my riding, I will admit my wrong, even if nothing else.
I would like to see that from my fellow racers. We all make mistakes. but it would be nice to say "I am sorry", it goes a long way.
That was the hole point I was trying to make originally, I wasn't looking for sympathy (racing incidents happen, I accept that), I was just very dissapointed in the other rider involved and I vented about it. My injuries are relatively minor, and my bike faired well for what it went thru, those were more incidental statements that went along with my true complaint. Respect between fellow racers is something I have always admirred about this sport, I just feel that this person not owning up to it is not what I have come acustom to.
Nick pal is doing ok sholder is broke and he is beat up and his wife did come down to get his stuff sun. night all is well but she did tell me he will not return to racing at this point! he has hung his helmet up!!!!!
well we all have to get up and go to work on mon. so I hope some of you racer figure this out before someone get killed!
Work sucks...
QuoteWork sucks...
So does crashing. I've got the biggest black eye right now and I've had to retell the same story about 50 times....and it keeps getting better everytime I tell it. ;D
See, it's still more fun than work...even when you crash... 8)
I just got the 5th degree from my mgr at work about riding a motorcycle. ::)
In my first statement I said #58 was passed cleanly, that was not the case. If you read the statements following that, you will see that I meant the negative. I think #58 got punted off, but my crash was my fault, I was doing the passing.
Wow, I just sat here and read all five pages!! Here is my $.25 ;)
As far as HJC helmets, Corey Sarros split his open at Streets of Willow and did not hit a solid object (besides the ground) and now yours is crushed? I put my vote in for no HJC- maybe there is a reason Shoei and Arai cost more?
As far as "that's racing", I have a viewpoint here based on many types of racing and over 20 years working motorcycle roadracing (7 announcing so I see what happens out there). Take the case of a guy trying to make a pass on the inside over the patch. One guy says the patch is a no passing zone, another not involvedd in the crash says it is okay and has traction. Maybe the dude that smacked you had been on that line all day and just happened to freak when passing you? I see a lot of riders complaining that " he is not in the line and trying to pass"- well maybe that is the new line and he or she can get it right. Note, usually hear this when the complainer just lost a money race to the 'offender'. Before anyone gets their panties on a wad- remember I am speculating and opinionating- besides, wadding panties is no way to take care of them. Now the other crash- a dude riding a wheelie, carrying too far then not able to make the turn safely. Well in my CCS rule book it says no wheelies! So this guy is definitely in the wrong and that is not a 'racing' incident. If I saw that- a DQ and possibly more would be on the table.
Dave and others are right, when contingency or cash are on the line- the riding gets more aggressive. If you do not like aggressive riding, try a class where there is no contingency or cash being given (I mean big four money- not brake or tire bucks). Or petition to stay an amatuer. Note, amatuers are watched closely inthe SW region as it is a 'learning' class. We hold our experts to high standards and try to counsel, harrangue or fine the molesters of the safe racing rules. Safe racing is not track day rules, Dave hit that right on the head and I noticed that too.
Now as far as kicking a rider who is trying to pass (I mean a real kick- not lifting a foot from outside peg to freak the passer out) if I see that, the kicker will have their ass kicked off the track for life. (I do remember my buddy Roger dragging his left palm on the track through a bumpy left hairpin at Firebird and guys behind him going bananas! Good stuff)
So I stop with this- When racing in an expert class for money or vouchers, whether or not you are 1st or 21st, even if you don't want a $10 dollar check- the guy behind you might, and you should be ready to either hold him off or let him by. If you are the guy wanting to pass- take your chances but with a calculated risk, and don't be an insensitive idiot for a freakin' wood plaque and a few bones.
To the riders who were injured- no matter how badly or how it happened- get well soon, see you at the races-cuz we know you can't stay away!! ;D
Quote One guy says the patch is a no passing zone, another not involvedd in the crash says it is okay and has traction. Maybe the dude that smacked you had been on that line all day and just happened to freak when passing you? I see a lot of riders complaining that " he is not in the line and trying to pass"- well maybe that is the new line and he or she can get it right. Note, usually hear this when the complainer just lost a money race to the 'offender'.
Just in case you missed it previously I mentioned that the patch was about 1 foot wide and is on the inner most edge of the track, so with me leaned over another motorcycle physically isn't going to fit thru there. Benji is probably right about the patch being able to be used as good race surface, he would know since he was on fire that weekend. Also that race was not a money race as far as I was concerned, maybe for others though. The line I was taking was the line I normally take on that bike, it allows someone faster to pass me on either the inside or outside at the exit of the turn, I wasn't trying to block anyone by holding an extremely tight line, but that was exploited by this individual.
I am just writing off this incident as a learning experience and am going to be glued to the inside from now on in that turn. If someone wants to pass me in the future at that point their going to be going around me on the outside, more power to them if they can pull it off! :)
cstem very good words!
I don't really want to make a big deal out of and be viewed as a whiner, and it didn't seem like officials at the track was very much interested in looking into my incident anyway (well maybe they just didn't know what happened really) and I don't really feel good to go and complain about it the next time we go racing (is that correct?)
I would have liked to see T4 at summit point being mentioned at riders meeting and tell everyone to watch there speed going into that turn because a lot of people misjudge lines/speed and end up making a mistake, and there is a concrete wall 50 feel off the racing surface. I would also would have been extremely satisfied to see the offender at least being talked to. I don't necessarily want to see anyone reprimanded, but I felt that some action should have been taken by the officals to make sure this doesn't happen again. It has been very hard to swallow this one so far because doesn't seem like anyone was interested in the whole situation because I wasn't injured (badly).
Last year I was ran into at the same place by another rider, crashed hard into the wall and broke my pelvis and arm and got knocked out for quite a while. But I was not angry about that because the person who ran into me made the best effort to apologize to me and helped me anyway he could.To me that is sportsman like and I really appreciated it, even though I was harmed more so in that incident.
Mike, I did misunderstand your line in the corner, but you have it right now. Make whoever is going to pass you make the pass, no where is the rule book does it state that you must make it easier for someone to get by. It does however clearly state that it is the overtaking riders responsibility to safely pass other traffic.
Philly, at your nest riders meeting pipe up. I bet you will find some agreement witht the other riders. Also, when you see an infraction- calmly let the officials know. Good officials will watch the guy and see what is up. I tell riders to talk to the offender first, because coming from a rider it is a peer talking to them. When a official does, it is the 'man' getting down on him. But let the officials know, they can't see everything, especially where youguys race due to the number of entries you get- they are probably busier than a one legged man in a ass kicking contest.
QuoteMake whoever is going to pass you make the pass, no where is the rule book does it state that you must make it easier for someone to get by.
Bingo...
By leaving room at the apex, you ensure that you won't have enough room at the exit, for someone...
The line is picked by a faster rider before a slower rider picks his.
But I don't think that Mike was being passed by a "faster" rider; it was a competitor.
I've made the 6 Gate pass on Larry Denning before. It's a small window, and I had to be confident in making it stick. I though the little patch was a fair bit more slick than the regular pavement, but I wasn't hitting it regularly either. Anyway...
We have a number of the offender? Sometimes bad things follow people.
???
QuoteWe have a number of the offender? Sometimes bad things follow people.
???
I never saw the number on his plate, and I can't remember what color the front of the bike was, but I do remember seeing the white number plate background. I think the only real reason I would want to know who it was now is to see what he does in the future and not trust him like I do the majority of the other experts if near him on the track in the future.
I'm with ya...
Sometimes some riders just ride a certain weird way...and we recognize it, but maybe we don't talk about it.
If we can put together who it was, well, we might have some ideas on riding strategy...