Hi everyone,
I really want to start racing 2016. I think I would like to race the SV650. What are the pros and cons to the SV650 1st vs 2nd generation. Should I look for a street bike to convert to track bike or spring for one that is ready to race. Being 46, Formula 40 sounds like fun to me and the class I would be racing in. I would want the bike to be a versatile as possible allowing me to enter as many races as I can. From what I can see from reading the 2014 rules the SV650 would be very versatile.
If I cannot acquire the SV650 I have a 96' 900 Ducati Monster that is track worthy I ride at track days. Are there any other two vale air cooled monsters on the track? I don't see any at the track days.
Thanks in advance for anyone's time to help steer a newbe in the right direction...
Thanks in advance to anyone willing to help point a new racer in the right direction.
2nd Gen SV over 1st Gen mainly so you don't have to deal with Carbs. Also more parts for 2nd Gens out there.
buy one track prepped otherwise you will waste a lot of money track prepping a street bike.
Thanks Sam
Do they have Formula 40 at all or most race events?
Quote from: Newracer46 on November 16, 2015, 05:55:21 PM
Do they have Formula 40 at all or most race events?
All events.
We had a couple Duc 900SS's rolling around in LW classes a few years ago.
Wouldn't worry if the SV is 1st or 2nd gen. Both are fine. Some people swear by 1st, some by 2nd. All personal choice. Buy a bike already set up for racing. Most then you'd have to do is redo the suspension for your weight.
It's all personal choice - unless you have a second gen. Then your personal choice is wrong because first gens are the best!
Sam's right on carbs though - they suck, and when mine went on the fritz at Summit this year I realized how many SVs there are, but how few carbed ones there are.
Also Second Gens suck.
Basically don't listen to Ben... That's what Ben is saying. He likes his 1st gen but knows 2nd gen is the easier way to go.
There is a trade off between both models. I could go into detail, however, as a first year racer those details do not matter. The reality is that both are going to get the job done. I've seen racers run well on both Gen models.
If it were me, I would find a bike that is set up and ready to go. Building a bike is going to cost more than buying one that someone else spent the time and money to turn into a race bike.
KV
Thanks for the feedback all! From what I have seen the only places I have found that have classifieds for Race bikes are the WERA Site or this one. Any other places to look? I see some people swap out the front ends and replace the shocks with other manufactures. Is there a production shock and front end that is exceptional and cost effective to put on these bikes? Might I be better off sticking with a bike that has a Stock front end, with Race tech springs and gold valves, and an aftermarket shock? What kind of rear shocks are good for these bikes. Ohlins Penske....?
Thanks all for you time.
Very few of the old 2v Duc's out there. They're still a decent platform against the SV's and I still got beat by better riders on SVs. There are several classes out there to ride on either bike - LW F40 most likely being your best - and at least one more (Ultralight SBK) that's basically an SV class only. Sam will have anything you need from SV world! Best bet and cheapest way to get your feet wet is a track prepped SV, a race school/license and then hit your most local track for a race weekend!
If your willing to convert your Monster to a track bike that would be your most obvious choice. It would be a good beginner bike. Paging Jim Berrard.
Thanks all for the input. Went to http://wiest.lwtracer.com/machine/ . Many of my questions for SV setup became obvious. Nice Bikes! I know I could have a lot of fun on my Monster and the more I learn it seems more like the logical choice for the first year. I could pick up an SV after a year of experience giving me more versatility. I am concerned that the 2 Valve Monsters geometry makes it less practical hence the reason I don't see any at track days or hear of people racing them. My last track day I felt as though the front end was light and that I was riding the back tire more. Tread wear reflected this as well. It was making me begin to think the bike has an inherent rearward weight bias. I'm thinking that if I put clip on's on it will move enough of my weight forward to balance things out. All I need to get the monster on the track is a belly pan, Clip ons and steering damper.
Quote from: bruce71198 on November 19, 2015, 10:26:06 AM
If your willing to convert your Monster to a track bike that would be your most obvious choice. It would be a good beginner bike. Paging Jim Berrard.
Jim Berrard? Does he race a monster?
Quote from: Newracer46 on November 19, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
Jim Berrard? Does he race a monster?
Yes, Midwest guy. he will pipe in I hope. Farmboy on here.
Quote from: bruce71198 on November 19, 2015, 05:08:28 PM
Yes, Midwest guy. he will pipe in I hope. Farmboy on here.
Great! I'm Midwest too. I will keep an eye out for him. He would be good for me to talk to.
Thanks again Bruce
Quote from: Newracer46 on November 19, 2015, 01:54:17 PM
I am concerned that the 2 Valve Monsters geometry makes it less practical hence the reason I don't see any at track days or hear of people racing them. My last track day I felt as though the front end was light and that I was riding the back tire more. Tread wear reflected this as well. It was making me begin to think the bike has an inherent rearward weight bias. I'm thinking that if I put clip on's on it will move enough of my weight forward to balance things out. All I need to get the monster on the track is a belly pan, Clip ons and steering damper.
You'd be surprised how awful stock suspension setups are on track. If you were to track the Monster I'd recommend at least getting front and rear springs set for your weight. The stock stuff is set up progressively and meant for a rider and passenger so it's generally crap on the track. Springs and a simple sag setup will be night and day over stock.
Quote from: pdoughduc on November 20, 2015, 10:47:05 AM
You'd be surprised how awful stock suspension setups are on track. If you were to track the Monster I'd recommend at least getting front and rear springs set for your weight. The stock stuff is set up progressively and meant for a rider and passenger so it's generally crap on the track. Springs and a simple sag setup will be night and day over stock.
I hear ya, suspension has been replaced by Race tech springs, Gold valves and an Ohlins in the Rear. OEM was so terrible I couldn't stand it even for street riding.
Cheers
Quote from: Newracer46 on November 20, 2015, 10:56:18 AM
I hear ya, suspension has been replaced by Race tech springs, Gold valves and an Ohlins in the Rear. OEM was so terrible I couldn't stand it even for street riding.
Cheers
Ahh... Is your rear shock height adjustable? Jacking up the back end if it is adjustable will help. I run the standard (91-98) 900SS solo seat fairing with 5" of foam for a seat and it's still too low in the rear for me! You can also sink the forks in the triples quite a bit. I've seen them as low as 35mm over the top of the top triple so that along with clip ons should help to get the balance more forward too.
Quote from: pdoughduc on November 20, 2015, 02:07:18 PM
Ahh... Is your rear shock height adjustable? Jacking up the back end if it is adjustable will help. I run the standard (91-98) 900SS solo seat fairing with 5" of foam for a seat and it's still too low in the rear for me! You can also sink the forks in the triples quite a bit. I've seen them as low as 35mm over the top of the top triple so that along with clip ons should help to get the balance more forward too.
The rear ride height is adjustable and I have it lifted it as far as I can considering the length of the eyebolts. I am also only about 10 mm deeper into the triple clamps. Thanks for the insight
As far as racing an older gen monster it can be done... Anything can be raced. I could be wrong but I would say an SV is a much better platform chassis wise. I have never personally raced an SV though. You are spot on about the Monster rear weight bias. I own a S4rs with full Ohlins set up by a race tuner for me and had an S2r 1000. I have spent countless hours and tons of money trying to get my monsters to handle like my superbikes (748, 848).
The problem is if you raise the rear and lower the front enough to get more weight on the nose then you loose all the trail and the bike is unstable and nervous. I was planing to put my RS on a Scheibner chassis machine and try to figure out if adjustable triple clamps or something like that would get the geometry more inline with a true race bike. I got busy last year and never did it since its just my street bike.
If you change your mind we have my son's 1st Gen for sale. Set up and ready to race with all the usual race stuff and a stock motor. We have some spares (pegs, levers, gearing....). Would also be willing to throw in a spare tank (dented but still holds fuel) and a few sets of take-offs for $2500. Pm me if your interested.
thanks,
Mike
I had a feeling that I was fighting a loosing battle to get my monster to perform as good as other sportbikes out there simply due to the chassis design. I really think the SV650 is the perfect platform for me horsepower wise and its handling potential. I was originaly thinking that I would possibly pick something up in the spring after healing from Christmas, We'll see. If not I can ride my Monster one season. At first I was worried about purchasing a bike that would end up limiting the classes I could race in. It looks like the formula 40 is pretty much race what you bring as long as it fits the weight class and sounds like fun. Thanks to all for the thoughfull input.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
Well with a LW supersport legal SV, you can run LWSS, LWSB, LWGP, LWF40 (if you are over 40), GTL, ULWSB, Thunderbike, Supertwins (granted you'd be racing against 1000+cc twins in SuperTwins). If you don't get a supersport legal SV, then you just lose the ability to run LWSS.
Not sure your level of mechanical skills and such but if you want to stick with Ducati you could always buy a Ducati SS chassis and bolt all the monster stuff on that chassis.
Or buy a SS complete bike.
SV could be a slightly easier route (since they are popular at the track) unless you have someone to help you out already running a Ducati.
Well I found an SV650 Track bike really cheap, really looks like a rag (Chuckles). It has been sitting for 4 years. Going through it will give me a chance to get really familiar with it. Sounds scary I know but actually after talking to the owner and finding out that her raced it with stock air box and a filter and that they would run the tank and carbs dry after every race weekend (likely it was stored dry) I felt like it might be OK. Plugs looked as though they were burning good the last time it ran. Haven't had a chance to start working on it yet. I put some fuel in it and got it to start but only on the back cylinder. Likely fueling issue or stuck valve on the front cylinder. No smoking or knocking. Has a Ohlins Rear shock and Racetech springs in the front. The rear shock spring is to light for my weight. I'm about 175-180 and my gear is about 19-20 lbs. Will re-spring it. I have see some forums post talk poorly of Ohlins. Is there something that should be done with them to bring them up to snuff? Should I go with Ohlins recommendation for the rear spring rate and Race tech for the front or have Race Tech spring in front a rear (better Spring rate match?)? The bike also has a total loss ignition. I'm not sure how I feel about that especially today with the ultra light batteries on the market, but it is what it is and I think I will just run it for my first year at least. I will need to replace the battery which it has a 5 Amp/hr battery. Anyone know how long that will last? How often do you have to charge them during a practice day or track day. About how may hours or minutes if continuous use should I get? Would it be advisable to get a couple of batteries? What manufacture should I look for? Sorry I'm so long winded thanks for your time in response.
If the shock spring is to light chances are the fork springs are too. Ohlins is a fine shock for what your doing . If that bikes been sitting for 4 years i would recommend having the shock serviced as you don't know the last time it was done and it probably, at least, has lost its charge. While your at it drop the forks off too, they will need refreshing as well. Clean out the carbs and fuel tank, refresh all the fluids, service the wheel bearings, steering head bearings and suspension pivot points, new tires and chain, throw in a new battery and go racing.
Where you located since you said youre going to be running midwest?
Ask your SV questions at TWF forum (http://www.twfracing.com/vbforums/index.php). Zoran knows SV stuff inside and out.
I ran a total loss system on my SV. I plugged my battery into a trickle charger after every session. I was running a Shoria. It worked great! Just kept the pig tail for the charger easily accessible.
One thing you can do for the Ohlins shock is to get a longer body for it. TSE (http://www.tracksidesuspension.com/) put the longer body on mine. That way I could get to the desired 13.75"-14" length.
The SV is an awesome bike and great class to run in. You can also check out SVRider (http://www.svrider.com/forum/)for more info about the SV and any parts you might need.
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on December 18, 2015, 08:29:58 PM
Where you located since you said youre going to be running midwest?
I am northeast Illinois /Wisconsin border in Antioch IL.
Quote from: bruce71198 on December 17, 2015, 03:56:19 PM
If the shock spring is to light chances are the fork springs are too. Ohlins is a fine shock for what your doing . If that bikes been sitting for 4 years i would recommend having the shock serviced as you don't know the last time it was done and it probably, at least, has lost its charge. While your at it drop the forks off too, they will need refreshing as well. Clean out the carbs and fuel tank, refresh all the fluids, service the wheel bearings, steering head bearings and suspension pivot points, new tires and chain, throw in a new battery and go racing.
Went thought the front forks, brake calipers, master cylinder, and steering stem last week replaced forks with fresh oil I think it is too light 5wt. But that is what I had on hand and I wanted to check to see if it had gold valves which it does with yellow emulator springs. I am thinking that I will get it running with about a half tank of fuel in and weight the bike then go to race tech for the correct springs. At that time I will send the rear chock for service.
Thanks for the response.
Quote from: Capitalview on December 19, 2015, 09:56:15 PM
Ask your SV questions at TWF forum (http://www.twfracing.com/vbforums/index.php). Zoran knows SV stuff inside and out.
I ran a total loss system on my SV. I plugged my battery into a trickle charger after every session. I was running a Shoria. It worked great! Just kept the pig tail for the charger easily accessible.
One thing you can do for the Ohlins shock is to get a longer body for it. TSE (http://www.tracksidesuspension.com/) put the longer body on mine. That way I could get to the desired 13.75"-14" length.
The SV is an awesome bike and great class to run in. You can also check out SVRider (http://www.svrider.com/forum/)for more info about the SV and any parts you might need.
Hey thanks for your input I believe I was just reading a post of yours on SVRider last night abou total loss ignition nag the shoria battery shoria says they do not recommend it but you say you had no prob. Might have to do with not completely draining the battery. Your post was inspiring I already have one sharia battery and was wondering if I would need a second for doing track days? Do you use the Shoria charger as well? How long does it take to recharge?
I will look into TSE to service my shock. I feel as though I have pretty high standards for how I expect the bike to handle. Knowing this I will spend the money and get the suspension tip top.
Not sure how long it takes to recharge the battery. I used a anti gravity charger, which is similar to the Shoria. I want to get the Shoria charger though. I did have two batteries so I could swap quickly too.
I know Zoran runs the Shoria and has been doing so for awhile without any problem.
Good deal I already have the battery I purchased for my Monster. I do need to pick up a charger though.
"One thing you can do for the Ohlins shock is to get a longer body for it. TSE (http://www.tracksidesuspension.com/) put the longer body on mine. That way I could get to the desired 13.75"-14" length."
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[/size]Is that with stock fork tubes? The stock Ohlins is 12 inches, that's a big difference. did you notice a big difference with the longer shock. I called TSE today sounds like about 500.00 to lengthen the body and refresh the shock. Will look into it after the new year.
[/size]
[/size]What should I do for race fairings? The prior owner threw in some race fairings that are pretty rough and I don't know for sure if they wer originally made for an sv650 The guy said people put anything on them is that true? Seems like it would be challenging to keep it from looking cobbled together. Would it be realistic to just watch eBay for some used painted sharkskinz and do I have more options than just sv650 fairings?
[/size]Thanks for your time.
Aw man. I can't believe I never saw this, I haven't been on here in ages. I have spoken to Bruce, though... 8)
To the OP, it sounds like you found an SV, so you're probably good. If you need pro help on the suspension (no matter your budget, prioritize suspension setup first and foremost), there are some excellent guys right in our neck of the woods. Otherwise, go race, learn, and have a blast. The SV is among the most versatile and capable bikes you will find at the track, and will teach you more than most bikes as well.
If you ever decide to track your monster, I can assure you it is a very capable championship-level bike with not too many mods. Of course, more mods are always better - after suspension, wheels are the next best option (the stockers are HEAVY) - but the basic geometry is very good, very classic Ducati, which is to say rock solid stable, albeit requiring dedicated input. Chassis strength and stability is excellent, especially considering the relatively modest power output. Don't forget, the early Monster frames are essentially 851 chassis with slight tweaks, so they are born of racing intent, unlike the same-era SS bikes. I have personally found reliability to be rock solid as well, as the motor in my '96, which was my first track bike ever, and which has literally thousands of track miles from RA to Daytona and most points in between, still has the stock bottom end and transmission in as-yet never split cases. I did some light top end mods when I first got it, and have done pistons and valves once more since then, but it didn't even need the pistons. Other than that, new cam belts and plugs each spring and it's good to go.
No doubt, if you've already purchased a track-prepped SV, it will be both cheaper and more capable than your M until you invest some serious money in the Duc. The Duc, though, is an excellent and unique candidate for the class. That uniqueness, plus the relatively prodigious torque as compared to the SV, really make for a fun ride. I'll most likely have a couple of my bikes out this year, so I'll probably see you at some point. Actually, I'll definitely be at the track whether I have the bikes with me or not, but I'd prefer the former. If you ever want to chat about the Duc, or if you'd like a heads up on suspension guys, feel free to email me at berard12@comcast.net Who knows when I'll check back in here again?
Quote from: ducatista01 on November 23, 2015, 11:32:11 AM
As far as racing an older gen monster it can be done... Anything can be raced. I could be wrong but I would say an SV is a much better platform chassis wise. I have never personally raced an SV though. You are spot on about the Monster rear weight bias. I own a S4rs with full Ohlins set up by a race tuner for me and had an S2r 1000. I have spent countless hours and tons of money trying to get my monsters to handle like my superbikes (748, 848).
The problem is if you raise the rear and lower the front enough to get more weight on the nose then you loose all the trail and the bike is unstable and nervous. I was planing to put my RS on a Scheibner chassis machine and try to figure out if adjustable triple clamps or something like that would get the geometry more inline with a true race bike. I got busy last year and never did it since its just my street bike.
The SxR frames were heavily based on the ST chassis and do indeed have a pronounced rearward weight bias, and are very heavy as well. They can be ridden pretty hard, but they're also pretty hairy. Swingarm flex ultimately becomes an issue as well...
The older M chassis, with the dual sided alloy swing arm/hoop design, still has a slight rearward bias, but it's not nearly as bad as the newer Monsters, and is a fair amount lighter and handles much better than the newer bikes too.
Quote from: Farmboy on January 15, 2016, 02:16:21 AM
Aw man. I can't believe I never saw this, I haven't been on here in ages. I have spoken to Bruce, though... 8)
To the OP, it sounds like you found an SV, so you're probably good. If you need pro help on the suspension (no matter your budget, prioritize suspension setup first and foremost), there are some excellent guys right in our neck of the woods. Otherwise, go race, learn, and have a blast. The SV is among the most versatile and capable bikes you will find at the track, and will teach you more than most bikes as well.
If you ever decide to track your monster, I can assure you it is a very capable championship-level bike with not too many mods. Of course, more mods are always better - after suspension, wheels are the next best option (the stockers are HEAVY) - but the basic geometry is very good, very classic Ducati, which is to say rock solid stable, albeit requiring dedicated input. Chassis strength and stability is excellent, especially considering the relatively modest power output. Don't forget, the early Monster frames are essentially 851 chassis with slight tweaks, so they are born of racing intent, unlike the same-era SS bikes. I have personally found reliability to be rock solid as well, as the motor in my '96, which was my first track bike ever, and which has literally thousands of track miles from RA to Daytona and most points in between, still has the stock bottom end and transmission in as-yet never split cases. I did some light top end mods when I first got it, and have done pistons and valves once more since then, but it didn't even need the pistons. Other than that, new cam belts and plugs each spring and it's good to go.
No doubt, if you've already purchased a track-prepped SV, it will be both cheaper and more capable than your M until you invest some serious money in the Duc. The Duc, though, is an excellent and unique candidate for the class. That uniqueness, plus the relatively prodigious torque as compared to the SV, really make for a fun ride. I'll most likely have a couple of my bikes out this year, so I'll probably see you at some point. Actually, I'll definitely be at the track whether I have the bikes with me or not, but I'd prefer the former. If you ever want to chat about the Duc, or if you'd like a heads up on suspension guys, feel free to email me at berard12@comcast.net Who knows when I'll check back in here again?
Why are you up at 2:30 in the morning?
Quote from: bruce71198 on January 15, 2016, 10:57:32 AM
Why are you up at 2:30 in the morning?
Crocheting tire warmer blankets and searching the interwebz for opportunities to promote Monsters as ideal race bikes. Clearly lagging on the latter..
Quote from: Farmboy on January 15, 2016, 02:32:14 AM
The SxR frames were heavily based on the ST chassis and do indeed have a pronounced rearward weight bias, and are very heavy as well. They can be ridden pretty hard, but they're also pretty hairy. Swingarm flex ultimately becomes an issue as well...
The older M chassis, with the dual sided alloy swing arm/hoop design, still has a slight rearward bias, but it's not nearly as bad as the newer Monsters, and is a fair amount lighter and handles much better than the newer bikes too.
Jim Thanks for sharing this. I take you you have logged some track miles on a monster? I have a friend with a 2001 monster that handles on rails and I have never been able to get my 06 and 07 s*r to handle as well and I have full ohlins all set up and everything.
I thought the bikes were basically the same aside from the swing arm length and I would be able to get the new gen bike pretty happy with the right set up but it seems to not be the case. No matter what I try the s*r's just don't have the stability that my friends m900 does.
Do you have any set up tips for the s*r's? My next step is to get it on a frame machine and try and get the numbers looking as good as I can. Aside from that I have tried everything and its heartbreaking to have such a beautiful bike that disappoints me every time I ride the twisties.
...Sorry for the thread hijack.
Quote from: ducatista01 on January 20, 2016, 10:49:18 PM
Jim Thanks for sharing this. I take you you have logged some track miles on a monster? I have a friend with a 2001 monster that handles on rails and I have never been able to get my 06 and 07 s*r to handle as well and I have full ohlins all set up and everything.
I thought the bikes were basically the same aside from the swing arm length and I would be able to get the new gen bike pretty happy with the right set up but it seems to not be the case. No matter what I try the s*r's just don't have the stability that my friends m900 does.
Do you have any set up tips for the s*r's? My next step is to get it on a frame machine and try and get the numbers looking as good as I can. Aside from that I have tried everything and its heartbreaking to have such a beautiful bike that disappoints me every time I ride the twisties.
...Sorry for the thread hijack.
I raced both my '96 M and '08 S2R1000 pretty extensively back in '08 and '09, and won several regional and national amateur championships in '09 riding mostly the S2R. The 2 bikes are really nothing alike, as their chassis are derived from 2 entirely different bikes, i.e., the 851/888 vs the ST2/3/4 models.
At the time, I pretty much just put the bike together with parts I had and rode it. I had a set of Showa 996 forks, calipers, and master cylinder, Marchesini 5 spoke magnesium rims, and I purchased a Penske double clicker for the bike. Scotty Ryan at TSE did all the internal suspension mods for me. I stripped everything I could off the bike, but it still had the stock harness and weighed around 390 or so with enough fuel in it to race.
The bike was not exactly terrifying to ride, but it did have a nasty habit of pushing the front which I never worked out; I mostly used the excellent power the lightly modded motor made to make it work. In '11, I raced an entirely different, and much better and faster bike, and really didn't ride the S2R much, so I never did much more with it until I disassembled it last year with the intention of using the injected motor in the older M chassis. It bolted in no problem, but I hit a financial wall when it came to figuring out wiring harness and exhaust options (like 5-6k worth), so the motor is currently tucked away while I rebuild that bike around the carbed motor.
Anyway, before I tore the S2R down, I weighed both ends to see what the distribution was and came away with 188 at the front and 200 at the rear, with gas in it. So, as the fuel is burnt, the weight distribution is even less ideal. Additionally, this bike still had the stock (open) airbox and a lead acid battery up front, so if you tried to lighten it up further, the weight distribution would only get worse.
As I said, I was able to win 4 down at Daytona in '09 (and 1 at Mid Ohio, the bike was probably more challenging there than anywhere else I've ridden it), and the bike wasn't too scary. My fastest lap time was a 2:06 (no fairing either) without breaking much of a sweat, although I'm sure a steering damper would have taken an easy second off that as the bike would shake it's head pretty good coming out of the infield and especially the kink down there. Believe it or not, it never really seemed to need a damper elsewhere despite that weight bias, so I never bothered with it. Still, I don't know that you'd ever be able to make one of these handle with that weight distribution - there's really nothing you can take off the rear. The damn frame, swing arm, and rear hub assembly are, IMO, just too heavy.
FWIW, if I were going to put the DS motor in a "correct" frame, I'd opt for one of the SportClassic chassis; they work pretty well from what I've seen guys do with them. I'm still hoping to mate the new motor to the old M, but for now I've taken 40 lbs off the old bike, modded the motor a little more, and mounted bodywork, so I plan on riding that this year and seeing how it is. I can still get quite a bit more power out of the carbed motor, and I've figured that the DS motor with all the required additional hardware will add a minimum of 25# to the bike, so that's a negative to that option as well.
As I stated earlier, I never had overwhelming stability issues per se. I know the 996 forks were a little shorter than stock spec (not sure about the Ohlins forks), so the front end was dropped a bit, but I think the Penske was stock length in the rear, although it is height adjustable. Apart from the front end pushing in more technical corners (I always had the most problems in 7 up at RA, and coming over the hill down into the back of Mid O, I forget what turn that is), the bike was surprisingly stable under braking and in turns. I do recall, though, that when I rode the bike a few times in '11, I started to notice NASTY things happening with the chassis; I attributed this to me finally going faster than the single sided swing arm could handle. I'm not positive about this, though, because I didn't put any effort or resources towards resolving it as I had the other, much better bike.
Do you have clip ons on the bike? Do you know that the suspension is completely optimized and set up? What spec is your buddy's M set up to? Just curious, although I just don't think you could ever get an S2R to work as well as one of the older Ms, much less a super bike. It does sound like you have the rear jacked up too much; I'd drop it back down a little bit, which would restore stability without sacrificing too much responsiveness. I never had much of a problem with turn in on mine. Having said all of that, I did ride my S2R in quite an active manner, kind of like a monkey riding a manic pit bull. And, let me state openly that I'm not the most knowledgable or disciplined when it comes to bike set up, although I'm learning every day. I just came to the sport somewhat late and am happy to just ride as fast as I can. I'm kind of an idiot like that.
Quote from: Farmboy on January 15, 2016, 02:16:21 AM
Aw man. I can't believe I never saw this, I haven't been on here in ages. I have spoken to Bruce, though... 8)
To the OP, it sounds like you found an SV, so you're probably good. If you need pro help on the suspension (no matter your budget, prioritize suspension setup first and foremost), there are some excellent guys right in our neck of the woods. Otherwise, go race, learn, and have a blast. The SV is among the most versatile and capable bikes you will find at the track, and will teach you more than most bikes as well.
If you ever decide to track your monster, I can assure you it is a very capable championship-level bike with not too many mods. Of course, more mods are always better - after suspension, wheels are the next best option (the stockers are HEAVY) - but the basic geometry is very good, very classic Ducati, which is to say rock solid stable, albeit requiring dedicated input. Chassis strength and stability is excellent, especially considering the relatively modest power output. Don't forget, the early Monster frames are essentially 851 chassis with slight tweaks, so they are born of racing intent, unlike the same-era SS bikes. I have personally found reliability to be rock solid as well, as the motor in my '96, which was my first track bike ever, and which has literally thousands of track miles from RA to Daytona and most points in between, still has the stock bottom end and transmission in as-yet never split cases. I did some light top end mods when I first got it, and have done pistons and valves once more since then, but it didn't even need the pistons. Other than that, new cam belts and plugs each spring and it's good to go.
No doubt, if you've already purchased a track-prepped SV, it will be both cheaper and more capable than your M until you invest some serious money in the Duc. The Duc, though, is an excellent and unique candidate for the class. That uniqueness, plus the relatively prodigious torque as compared to the SV, really make for a fun ride. I'll most likely have a couple of my bikes out this year, so I'll probably see you at some point. Actually, I'll definitely be at the track whether I have the bikes with me or not, but I'd prefer the former. If you ever want to chat about the Duc, or if you'd like a heads up on suspension guys, feel free to email me at berard12@comcast.net Who knows when I'll check back in here again?
Hey thanks for piping in. I have the SV 650 on the rack at this time. I have been going though it little by little just finished the suspension with help from TSE. I couple of more small odd ends, tuning and the body work and I am done. the Bodywork was pretty beat up so I have been trying my hand at body work. I suppose it is ok to use a 1/2-3/4 inch of bondo to fill dents in the fuel tank?? :) learning fiberglass repair filling holes on the rest of the fairing. (good practice and nothing to loose at this point.) how should I go about getting it painted? Rattle cans ??. Is it reasonable to think that I could complete all the body work as in completely smooth out the bodywork then take it to a local body shop and ask them to spray it with what ever they have in hopes of getting everything painted for a couple of hundred dollars?
Your inspiring in regards to my 96 M. I have race tech springs, gold valves with ohlins out back. The last time I had it at a track day "Gingerman" I was riding in the intermediate class and found myself feeling as though I could just about put the bike anywhere on the track I wanted too giving some people fits oh higher horsepower bikes :). The front end did feel light and I could feel it start to tuck a couple of times mid corner or just after when I would try and tighten the line.
But you are right on!! What a hoot to ride. I love the torque and throttle response of the Duc with 41 mm flatsides :) I'm sure I will miss it on the 650 :)
Cheers
Quote from: Newracer46 on January 24, 2016, 11:10:20 PM
Hey thanks for piping in. I have the SV 650 on the rack at this time. I have been going though it little by little just finished the suspension with help from TSE. I couple of more small odd ends, tuning and the body work and I am done. the Bodywork was pretty beat up so I have been trying my hand at body work. I suppose it is ok to use a 1/2-3/4 inch of bondo to fill dents in the fuel tank?? :) learning fiberglass repair filling holes on the rest of the fairing. (good practice and nothing to loose at this point.) how should I go about getting it painted? Rattle cans ??. Is it reasonable to think that I could complete all the body work as in completely smooth out the bodywork then take it to a local body shop and ask them to spray it with what ever they have in hopes of getting everything painted for a couple of hundred dollars?
If you crash your SV you will dent the tank. Trying to pull the dents out frequently results in ripping the metal. Just fill right over the dent with body filler is my advise. As far as painting, rattle cans will result in the lowest cost paint job you can achieve but it stains and washes off easily. Some have used Rustolium in a paint gun wit good results. You can also order automotive paint in rattle cans, not the color match stuff, actual car paint, activator and all, any color you want from some parts stores. By me Lee auto parts gets it for less than $20 a can. Holds up well, and if properly prepped, looks really nice. Your other option is to find a body shop to paint it. When doing this I ask them to use single stage paint (keeps labor hours down) and because I'm not building show bikes.
Thanks for the lead. I went on Ebay found this place out of Spokane Washington and called out there. They were really helpful. I think this will be the way I go that way I can paint it the way I want it. Like you said it is good paint. The guy said that he recommends a two step for the tank. That way if you drip fuel on it occasionally it wont hurt it. He also said that the two step can even be cut and polished. Sound like pretty good stuff. They also sell a one step that has the clear coat mixed in. Thanks for the idea.
Cheers !!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Touch-Up-Custom-Spray-Can-Automotive-Paint-317-Orient-Blue-Metallic-for-BMW-323i-/351569572230?hash=item51db2df186:g:f~4AAOSwKtlWlsbt
Jim...
What triples are you using with the 996 forks? Another difference between the older than 01 bikes and the S*R's is the triple clamp offset. The older ones are 25mm and newer ones are 30mm.
Yes I have clip ons. ...and I am laying over the front of that thing to keep it planted.
The suspension is as optimized as possible (Its never perfect but man have I tried). Had two suspension tuners muck with it including valving and spring changes front and rear on the RS.
My buddies 01 has supersport Showa forks redone by TSE with correct springs. And an Ohlins on the rear. Never had to mess with adjusting it... Just slapped the baseline setup on it and rode. Its very nice. Rear has been raised a bit. (I tried to duplicate the ride height numbers on his to my RS with no luck. To many other variable in play)
On the RS I have an aftermarket ride height rod that goes both higher and lower than stock. I found the best setting actually lower than factory stock so its not jacked up at all. Actually the opposite.
The front is as high as possible. The ohlins are actually slightly countersunk in the top triple by a couple mm for better clearance. With the RS under hard braking the tire can hit the big 4 valve head so I set it where I have just enough clearance to be safe. I took tie downs and compressed the front to check clearance, then set the front ride height accordingly.
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 25, 2015, 12:54:39 AM
Well with a LW supersport legal SV, you can run LWSS, LWSB, LWGP, LWF40 (if you are over 40), GTL, ULWSB, Thunderbike, Supertwins (granted you'd be racing against 1000+cc twins in SuperTwins). If you don't get a supersport legal SV, then you just lose the ability to run LWSS.
Of these races, in which ones would a well sorted SuperBike with an amateur rider be most competitive?
Florida combines all of the LW classes now, so I'll be racing against experts.
Quote from: vance on February 09, 2016, 05:07:01 PM
Of these races, in which ones would a well sorted SuperBike with an amateur rider be most competitive?
Florida combines all of the LW classes now, so I'll be racing against experts.
With a superbike built sv, you just lose the ability to race supersport. Wouldn't worry about racing experts as an am. Scored separately, just on track at the same time. Experts usually start 1st, then when the last ex goes into T1, the amateur pack gets to start. 2 wave starts when we combine ex and am up here in the MW normally.
I hope that will be the case, but I spoke with Henry yesterday on the phone and he said the Florida LW grids have become so small he decided to combine all of them to help with contingency.
Confirmed in today's email:
For the 2016 season the following classes will run combined with amateurs and experts racing each other for events at Homestead.
Lightweight SuperSport, Ultralight SuperBike, Lightweight Superbike, Lightweight Grand prix, Thunderbike, Lightweight Formula 40, SuperTwins, GT Lights. These are in addition to the 4 classes that run combined nationwide of Ultralight Thunderbike, GT Ultralight, Moto 3 and 500 SS.
So my next question is scoring at Daytona:
When they separate the LW grids and start amateurs in 2nd wave, the FL experts I'm racing against will be long gone by the time the amateur wave starts. Or will there only be 1 wave combined? Plus if I'm scored separately in a split race for Daytona and for example there are 10 experts and 10 novices and I get 5th in amateur, do I get 5th place points for FL region or 15th place points (assuming all experts finish ahead, you get the idea).
Quote from: ducatista01 on January 30, 2016, 11:24:20 AM
Jim...
What triples are you using with the 996 forks? Another difference between the older than 01 bikes and the S*R's is the triple clamp offset. The older ones are 25mm and newer ones are 30mm.
Yes I have clip ons. ...and I am laying over the front of that thing to keep it planted.
The suspension is as optimized as possible (Its never perfect but man have I tried). Had two suspension tuners muck with it including valving and spring changes front and rear on the RS.
My buddies 01 has supersport Showa forks redone by TSE with correct springs. And an Ohlins on the rear. Never had to mess with adjusting it... Just slapped the baseline setup on it and rode. Its very nice. Rear has been raised a bit. (I tried to duplicate the ride height numbers on his to my RS with no luck. To many other variable in play)
On the RS I have an aftermarket ride height rod that goes both higher and lower than stock. I found the best setting actually lower than factory stock so its not jacked up at all. Actually the opposite.
The front is as high as possible. The ohlins are actually slightly countersunk in the top triple by a couple mm for better clearance. With the RS under hard braking the tire can hit the big 4 valve head so I set it where I have just enough clearance to be safe. I took tie downs and compressed the front to check clearance, then set the front ride height accordingly.
Stock lower, Cyclecat upper to accommodate the larger diameter super bike forks. The forks are a bit shorter than stock, so it effectively dropped the front end around 10-15mm or so. I never messed with the rear height, just replaced the shock. Like I said, I pretty much put it together and rode it. I never had any clearance issues at the front under braking, likely more clearance w/ the 2v motor. Sorry I'm not more help, I believe I mostly adapted to a so-so handling bike.