Okay...I am planning on buying another bike to go with my Ducati towards the end of next season, maybe even in the middle of next season, depending on money. I'm assuming I'll be made an expert next year, so I'll be racing for better contingency money and purses, etc. Should I buy a 600 or a 750 or a 1000, and which brand pays the best if Hell freezes over and I run up front? I'm starting the research early so I can watch for deals and then jump on the right one. Also, I know a bike can only be a certain model year or newer to collect manufacturer contingency. Any info is greatly appreciated. And please, try to make these somewhat unbiased opinions based on what pays the best and is the easiest to ride near the front. Brad-no R1...sorry...lol. Unless Yamaha comes up big with their contingency.:D TIA :)
You are going to open up a can of worms with this question.
I have heard that next year's gsxr 600 will be something special - no hard info, just rumors that I have heard - Suzuki seems to always pay pretty good contingency and now Honda has jumped in, but I don't know any specifics, Feff4ry probably knows all about it though. I think for Suzuki money, you need to have 2001 or newer, but I could be wrong, and that will most likely change next year. I think you can check it out on the suzuki website ( it seems that I remember something about less than 2 years old)
If you want to race til you have no more $$$ get a 600. As many races in a weekend as you can afford. Providing they don't change the classes next year, on a 4-cyl 1000 (gsxr 1000, cbr 954) 3 races per weekend, on a gsxr 750 - 5 races per weekend. I figure 5 is plenty for me and pushing my budget anyway, so I have stuck with a 750 vs. a 600. I still race against the 600's in most of my races and I think alot of the time its going to come down to the rider unless you are on a large track (Road America) where the larger horsepower might become a factor, but I still think it is going to come down to rider skill in club racing most of the time and not necessarily HP.
Just my $0.02.
Harb
Thanks Harb...keep the opinions coming! :)
Yam only pays back to 3rd
Apr pays to 5th
Hon pays back to 5th
Suz & kwak pay to 10th
http://www.formulausa.com/contingency/FUSARR%20claim%20form.PDF
Aprilia pays on 22 event days
Hon pays 15 days
Kwak 20 days
Suz 19 days
Yam 15 days
But then again, the payouts are different and the events where payout is available differ as well...
In the end, buy whatever YOU are most comfortable on. That way, you stand a chance at getting contingency, period...
You would be crazy to race a 600, it just too many fast people in those classes, you wouldnt have a chance. :'( There were over 40+ in the 600 classes at the last race I was at, two wave start, and almost all were super fast. The 600 classes are like the 250 class in motorcross, packed to the gills with talented riders. I dont know, its a tough call if you are going to keep the duc in the LWT class and want something else to race as well. Are you sure you will get promoted to expert, you might be counting your chickens before they hatch, you can file to stay AM for another year if you just barely have the points. You will get way more Contingency if you are a fast AM than you would if you are a slow Expert, which you will be the first year or two. Most want to stay AM almost too long for all the money they can collect. :o Im hoping to stay just under the 500 points needed to stay AM one more year. Back to another bike, I like the GSXR 1000, you just have to learn mucho throttle control on that one though. Just my 2cents ;D
well, i got a 750 so im partial to them. I can race 5 classes in CCS (this year).
But think about this, I think i heard that AMA superstock will include the gsxr 1000 next year. Can anyone confirm this ??
In that case, would CCS/WERA follow suit and open up the ever popular liter bikes to more classes ??
I've always been a Yam or Suz fan (i've only ever owned a fzr and gsxr), but that new 636 is legal for all the middleweight classes in CCS/WERA. Radial brakes too. Once some more aftermarket parts come out for it, might be something to think about. Or you could wait to see what Suz is doing with the 600.
Anyway, ponder this. I've got a "bone stock" 750 (no race fuel, no Power Commander) and some 600's have enough power that i cant pass on some straights at these "short" 2mile courses.
I'm actually really good with throttle control, I always have been for some reason. As far as the status goes, I almost have 500 points already, from two race weekends. Also, Henry knows I am turning times close to or the same as the fast experts. Unfortunately for me, so are three other amateurs this year...lol. One reason I want to turn Expert is that I am looking to run some AMA events before I get too old. I know you need at least one year as an expert before that can happen. Could be a pipe dream, but I always chase my goals as hard as possible. I know I have a ton to learn, but I also know I can be a fast rider some day. Also, I know it is safer in the expert classes, as the fast guys are more predictable. Next year is still a long ways off, so I'm not sure about any of it yet. Just starting to do some research ahead of time, that's all.
First of all, you don't need 1 year of Expert to ride AMA...only 100 Expert points on the AMA scale, you can look up the scale at the AMA Pro Rider website.
Second, trust me when I say almost the the entire Expert class is made up of ex-fast Amateurs. 1 mistake can have you out of running with the top pack and in 15th faster than you can say, oh damn! Multiply this by 2 if you are running a 600, and by 10 if you are running a 600 versus big bikes on a HP track! 1 weakness in your game can cost you 5 places....mine is starts :( Passing is so much harder, no longer are you passing people you are 5 seconds faster than, try passing guys who are just as fast as you excpet 1 or 2 places...good for a seconds each, maybe, but they take the racing line and block you in those areas. Safer in expert? LOL...not true.
Am I saying expert is impossible? No...its just not quite as small a jump as lap times and watching make it appear.
So, what bike you ask? I'm considering a SV650 next year....less expense and smaller fields, and less Schwantz wannabes. If you really feel you are ready for AMA, though, you will need at least a I-4 600/636 ;D
I'm hoping to be ready for the AMA in two to four years. I am by no means even close to being remotely ready for it now...lol. I do, however, want to take the quickest path possible to get there. If that means running the toughest classes, so be it. I think the remainder of this year will be a really great learning experience, as I saw no races other than ours have a four way battle for the lead. I think we are gonna do that the rest of the year too! It's gonna be a blast!!! Whether I'll ever be competitive in an AMA race in my lifetime is most likely not gonna happen. However...I will race in the AMA some day, and I'll do what it takes to get there. Now if I could just convince myself to start working out...lol. ;D
By the way...I learned a TON this weekend. Most importantly, patience. I wanna thank Mike Mills, Steve Servis, and Matt ? (sorry) for the fun and close racing up front, and John Linder for the tips and for showing me the fast way around in practice.
Mr. Duc. I think you might consider going to another bike sooner. Im sure your love for your Duc. is strong, but I am thinking of the bang-factor :-/ Please dont get me wrong sure Ducs are all that ::) Its just with all the learning ahead of you, your bike and motor shouldnt be a concern so much.Ya know what im sayin. It seems in my humble opnion,that you asked for,that a jap machine might serve you easyer at this point. My experience is that it truly sucks to spend my hard earned money on repairs cuz I have to be diffrent. Ya see I to am makeing the switch to something easyer and I have no problem telling you that. Good luck Motard11 ;)
Actually, the problems I've had have been a monsterous learning experience. I've learned more about motors and maintenance and repairs already than I thought I would in a couple years. :)
Thats kindof my my point. Raceing and wrenching are 2 diffrent sports the problem is both at once is expensive :o Are you going to road Alanta ?
nah...moroso is that weekend
I understand what you are saying, but a big part of going fast is understanding the bike and everything that's going on. You are right though...can't afford too much more big stuff.
When is the next time youre going to Jennings? I got a bike for you to try ;D
I'm dying to ride a Motard!!! Won't be back at jennings any time soon though. :(
Ialso have a A 03GSXR1000 you can try if you promise not to kill ;D
Sweet! If I can just keep the front wheel on the ground!
Did you resd my post on my first ride on the beast,it scares me. I like a good scare :D
I have a buddy with a street GSXR 750 that he has built to go fast. It is a wheelie monster...lol. Nothing can compare to the shock I got the first time I rode this Duc with flat slides, though...lol. Wheelie to nut rack in 2 seconds flat! :o That was the first, and hopefully the last, time I had ever done that to myself...lol. ;D By the way, it doesn't take much throttle to open up those carbs compared to my sold street SS900! ;)
I see you do have 314 points overall, but how did you get 120 pionts for second in LWT GP in one race? Did it happen to be a double points weekend, i guess so? I forgot about those, :o thats why CCS needs to redo the points structure so you wont become an expert after one weekend. Even if you have 500+ overall you can still stay Am if you dont have over 500 in any one class unless you make the top 5 at the end of the year if its your first year as a AM. Dude, you have to crawl before you can run with the experts, stay Am as long as possible to get the experence and go to as many tracks as possible. Unless you just want to be a poser and say you are an EX. Remember you just did your first track day last Jan. and you have never even been to most tracks around the SE. You wont be turning times with the EX when you go to a track you have never been to. The most important thing to have on your side is experence and you have very little at this point. You need to work on corner speed, learning different tracks and not rely on HP down the straights as much. Then when everthing starts coming together in a few years you will have the HP, track knowledge, bike sorted out and the corner speed to run up front with the EX. Dont worry about getting to old to run an AMA race, age has very little to do with speed, experence is way more important than how young you are. Just take a look at how fast the F40 EX class is and there are a tons of so called old guys racing in AMA. I have to agree with sdiver68, its no more safer in the Ex class either. At the rate you are trying to get to the AMA you are going to burnout if you arent careful, just chill, AMA pro racing isnt going anywhere. One big crash that busts you up good will take all the wind out of your sails and make you rethink your whole plan. About throttle control, you will really know for sure if you have good throttle control when you take out a GSXR 1000, add about 60-70 HP to your Duc and try to ride it. Thats how much power they have and they spin up quicker than a V-twin too. :o Later. ;D
Duc,
You should get a new bike. All of the problems you are having are typical of running a superbike. I have been racing a 750 for 3 years now. I have never had a mechanical. The worst problem I ever had in a race was a false neutral. I never touch the bike. I mean never. I don't even like washing it.
If you look at all the rules for this and next year, the 750's are dead. So don't get one of those. If you plan to run AMA, either get a 600 and run SS or FX, or get a 1000 and run SuperStock.
Also, expert grids are a lot different than amateur. Last year there were more experts on big bikes than 600's. It seems to be changing for this year because of all the new 600's. No matter which class you choose, there will always be fast guys.
I would stay AM for another year if I thought they'd let me. Everybody wants to win a championship, right? ;D However, if I manage to win at the ROC in any of my races, which is a strong possibility if this bike stays together, I cannot stay AM no matter what. Am I gonna win there, who knows...but I'm sure as Hell gonna try. I'm sure Jesse Nunn and Michael Mills (among other people) will have something to say about it. :D Either way, if I can stay AM next year, I probably will, cuz I'd love a year or at least half a year on a 600 or 750 as an AM first before trying to race with Barney and Matt Wait, etc, etc. ;)
Hay Duc, I rode a 636 yesterday and da#* was I impressed :o I think Im gonna get one next week to make a track bike out of. after I get it sorted you can giveit a go as well. I dont guess there gonna give me the one on speedtv so Ill just have to come off with some cabbage! From what I understand it should be legal for ccs and wera as I would like to have it as my new endurance bike What do think :D
I realize that your not up here racing with us in the Midwest regions, but some of the guys in the F40 class are also front runners in other classes. Ed Key is all dominate in the lightweight classes up here and he's like 50ish (feeds it to everybody at Daytona also) and Rodger Hendricks is a very fast front runner in the I-4 classes. I don't think that age is really going to be as much of a factor as invinsibility would be running in the AMA Pro races. Many of the fast AMA Pro guys are either young and invinsible or very experienced after many years of racing. Going into the Pro stuff too soon will most likely put you at the back of the grid (if at all) and you will be lapped multiple times during the race. Yes you can then say you race Pro, but you will also then be the lapper that the front runners are always complaining about.
I don't know your experience with I-4 bikes, but from what I have heard it is easier to ride a twin due to the power delivery. You may not do as well going to an I-4 bike, some people are better on twins than I-4's and vice versa. But on the other hand you may be better on an I-4 than a twin and smoke everybody, who knows?
As sdiver68 said about riding a 600 in a HP class on a big track, unless you are incredible on the thing you will probably get a real wake-up call. I have been riding my '99 GSXR 600 in the HW and UL classes so far (noting that I weigh 230 lbs.) and it was embarrassing when I would accelerate next to a 1000 and watch him run away from me (very frustrating!). A new 600 on race fuel and a much lighter rider would definately do better, but I doubt it would be very often they would beat a 1000 on a HP track.
I was about 230 a year and a half ago...lol. I'm down to the mid 190's now, but still not a little guy. I actually had to get used the the twin's power delivery, and the first few times I rode this one I was at way too high of an rpm range in the corners and shifting a lot more than I needed to...lol. I'm used to it now, but still think I prefer to have the motor screaming in the corners all the time. Either way, it'll be a long time if ever that I can run anywhere near the front of an AMA race, but I just want to get going so if Hell froze over and I miraculously became fast enough to get a look from a semi-factory team, I just don't want to be old enough that they overlook me. Motard, I saw a 636 whipping the 750's at Jennings...lol...and it's definitely legal as a MW in CCS...not sure about WERA. If you are planning on doing endurance races, I'm looking for a ride, either as a guest, fill-in, whatever. Let me know if you're interested.