I could have sworn I saw a Firebolt racing middleweight sportsman at RA. So I checked the rules and yup, they appear to be legal this year!
I was just about to screw the Hawk back together and join you guys for some fun but now the Hawk is officially competitive in 0 classes!!!!!!!!
I'm pissed! ( thanks for listening ;))
Haven't checked the rules for LW sportsman, but the FZR400 is now legal for that class, shouldn't the Hawk be as well?
QuoteI could have sworn I saw a Firebolt racing middleweight sportsman at RA. So I checked the rules and yup, they appear to be legal this year!
I was just about to screw the Hawk back together and join you guys for some fun but now the Hawk is officially competitive in 0 classes!!!!!!!!
I'm pissed! ( thanks for listening ;))
Whoo Hooo!
I knew you couldn't stay away! Get that Hawk back together and get you butt back on the track.
Dawn ;D
This is the section in the rule book about Middle Weight Sportsman....
MIDDLEWEIGHT SPORTSMAN (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
Single cylinder, unlimited displacement, unlimited frame
Two stroke, liquid cooled, up to 515cc
Two stroke, air cooled, unlimited displacement
Twin cylinder, air cooled, non-desmodromic valves up to 900cc
Twin cylinder, air cooled, desmodromic valves, up to 805cc
Twin cylinder, air cooled, 2 valve, push rod, up to 1050cc
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1999 model year, up to 700cc
Three cylinder, non-fuel injected, up to 900cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1987 model year, up to 570cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, 1987 to 1992 model year, up to 500cc
Four cylinder, air cooled, up to 750cc
Harley-Davidson Sportsters of unlimited displacement
NOTE: Ducati/Bimota/BMW Supermono & Woods Rotax machines are excluded from this class.
Dawn :)
Jim, put that Hawk together........
when you pass that guy on the Firebolt, he's going to be pretty EMBARRASSED ;D
QuoteThis is the section in the rule book about Middle Weight Sportsman....
MIDDLEWEIGHT SPORTSMAN (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
Single cylinder, unlimited displacement, unlimited frame
Two stroke, liquid cooled, up to 515cc
Two stroke, air cooled, unlimited displacement
Twin cylinder, air cooled, non-desmodromic valves up to 900cc
Twin cylinder, air cooled, desmodromic valves, up to 805cc
Twin cylinder, air cooled, 2 valve, push rod, up to 1050cc
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1999 model year, up to 700cc
Three cylinder, non-fuel injected, up to 900cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1987 model year, up to 570cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, 1987 to 1992 model year, up to 500cc
Four cylinder, air cooled, up to 750cc
Harley-Davidson Sportsters of unlimited displacement
NOTE: Ducati/Bimota/BMW Supermono & Woods Rotax machines are excluded from this class.
Dawn :)
I don't know why they don't just call this class "Harley's to win against everything else that's old" or something like that. ::)
I especially like the "Twin cylinder, air cooled, desmodromic valves, up to 805cc" followed by "NOTE: Ducati...are excluded from this class." So those twin cylinder, air cooled desmos would be...??? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? ;D ;D
Aye yai yai.
Ducati Super mono/BMW Super mono/Bimota Super mono
Better?
Thanks for the vote of confidence Mike but that Firebolt rider is a pretty fast guy. ( Hi Paul!) Since he's a big shot at Harley he musta got 'em to twist CCS's arm to allow them into the class. ;D
Did you notice how he did? The rule(I believe) was intended for old Sportsters, which would certainly be fair. If they win all the time I'd complain. Especially if it walks everybody on the straight. Which really, I want to know how it did. You guys in the mid-west are going to see alot more of them than anywhere else, with Hal's and the factory right there. Somebody pointed out everything in the class is old. Possibly, it is intended to be the SV of Sportsman, if so, I'd go buy one. They are pretty cool and alot more refined than the "backyard special" way the old ones were. You can put the Hawk right next to my X1, in the corner of the basement where old motorcycles go to wait for resurection to AHMRA.
Firebolts are 996cc or 998cc. So that falls under the 1050cc limit for air cooled pushrod 2 valve motors. ;D
The Aprilia RS 250 rules the roost in MW sportsman! ;D
Especially when it is a 316cc Big Bore!!! :o
A well built Duc 750 or MZ660 can do well in that class, as seen in the Florida region.
Hi Jim, you got me out of lurking mode...
Yes, the Firebolt is legal in Middleweight Sportsman, due to it's 984cc air-cooled pushrod powertrain. As a former Hawk racer, I feel your pain. But, time marches on. And the truth is, the Aprila 250 (316s) made the class tougher for Hawk racers years ago.
I've raced the MW Sportsman class three times this season aboard a Firebolt XB9R, twice at Road America, and once at Blackhawk. At RA, I got my a** handed to me on Saturday by Jason Temme, a very fast guy aboard a very fast FZR 460. On Sunday I won, but only because Jason wasn't on the grid. Lon Allen aboard a 758cc Ducati finished just behind me on both days. At Blackhawk this past weekend, I had a great race with Gary Palmer aboard a 750cc Ducati and finished 2nd to him. We were turning nearly identical lap times (low 19s-high 18s), and I couldn't close up on him enough to try a pass. I don't recall seeing a Hawk on the grid at Road America or Blackhawk Farms.
So, the Firebolt seems competitive in MW Sportsman, but not dominant. Of course, the FZRs, Ducatis and Aprilias in the class are on the fat end of the development scale and the Firebolts out there are mostly stock. But without more engine displacement, there's not much you can do to the Firebolt to make more horsepower, and a bit more displacement would make it illegal for the class anyway.
I think the bottom line is the MW Sportsman class needs more bikes, not less. And a skilled rider on any bike legal for the class should be right in the thick of it. Get off the sidelines and come mix it up with us...
PS. Next time you better stop by my pit to say hi!
Paul James
CCS/FUSA #247
Paul! Good to see you posting here. Yeah, I agree the Hawk hasn't really been competitive for a couple of years but it's all I've got. I sold the SV to buy a Harley FLHT! Although last season I eeked out a couple of wins when I was a yellow plated sandbagger, I don't think that will be possible this year against fast guys like you and Palmer etc. I remember a pro racer saying recently "if you can't race up front why bother". ;D
Maybe I'll go see if Capital City HD/Buell will give me a Firebolt ;)
Congrats on the FLHT, Jim. Baggers are awesome. I know you and Beth will enjoy touring with it.
Next step, sell the Hawk and buy a Firebolt. They're starting to show up used (and crashed). I've never ridden anything that handles better.
Hope to see you at the track this summer...
Paul James
CCS/FUSA #247
My buddies at the Harley shop tell me that the 'Bolts don't crash well. Something about all that gas in the frame sliding down the asphalt...
I've seen sliders on the firebolts that have been raced.
Yep, frame sliders are a good idea (for any bike). But I've also seen F-Bolts crashed hard w/o sliders with nothing but cosmetic damage to the frame.
Cosmetic damage is the primary issue for street crashes, which is probably what the Harley shop guys are talking about.
Paul James
CCS/FUSA #247
I forgot that they use the frame for that. Gotta admit, that's a pretty darn cool idea. I am definitely not a fan of Harley, but Eric Buell seems pretty good for the sport we love so much. ;)
That guy has done alot for the racing community, sponsoring a class, racer support, and the ama just treats him like Rodney Dangerfield. I don't get it.
Jim, your a Harley guy now, the rules say you have to race a Buell.